Trip Planning » booking camp sites and selling them off at a profit » 4/06/2021 6:48 am |
@ShawnD - I must have been unclear but I wrote quite the opposite: "you may freely chastise me".
I personally would not admonish someone for these actions - but I did not imply or write that you should not form your own opinion about their behaviors or restrict your comments in any way. You are free to write what you would like (as long as it is not slanderous or libel, technically).
I chose my words carefully as I have been personally lambasted in the recent past for my comments and have opted not to respond in a demeaning or insulting manner...and I would definitely employ anyone else to attempt to introduce new 'rules of conversation' to my wife! ;-)
Trip Planning » booking camp sites and selling them off at a profit » 4/05/2021 10:47 am |
Sure, my opinion may not be popular and the practice is certainly not friendly to all users but the onus of the system design is on the designers to prevent manipulation or mis-use outside of its intended design. You may freely chastise me for supporting lawful use of a system but I would argue that your position lacks merit if the practice is not illegal.
If 'scalper bots' are, in fact, illegal and these users are employing them in a manner that is prohibited, I stand by my statement of 'they should be prosecuted'.
I am serious and I am not trolling. I am pointing out that the system design is potentially at fault for what you all have identified as a distasteful use of the system. My position is that, unless the activity is prohibited, their actions are legitimate. I certainly wouldn't do what they are doing (so I am not involved in 'this nonsense'), but I will not admonish someone for working within the limits of the law. I am also not oblivious to how it affects people - I recognize the impact and respect the rules as established, whether I agree with them or not.
Trip Planning » Route comparison for two beginners? » 4/05/2021 6:16 am |
The Barron Canyon trail is an easy way of getting an up-close view of the canyon combined with a canoe trip to Achray. It's easy to include a stop with the 30-40 minute walk to the couple of overlooks on your way in or out of the area and delivers a breathtaking perspective. Trying to get their via canoe is a bit of a round peg in a square hole for Bahpel.
Trip Planning » booking camp sites and selling them off at a profit » 4/05/2021 6:09 am |
Is the practice of booking a site and re-selling as an outfitter or as a citizen illegal? If not, kudos to those who show initiative and motivation to work within the law; if it is illegal, they should be prosecuted.
Catch-all Discussions » i really do not know why i bother,, i contacted ont. out door re-fees » 3/16/2021 3:26 pm |
The reason I asked is that there appears to be substantial errors or exaggerations of the information.
Solo: $12.43 plus $27.57 (222% increase not 400%) to get $40 per night. A 400% increase would be $62.15.
Couple: $24.86 plus $15.14 (61% increase not 300 or 400%) to get $40 per night. A 300% increase would total $99.44.
I assume this is not intentionally deceptive but I would recommend an accurate petition might carry more weight with the political decision-makers, Although it may get fewer signatures because it is not as scary to see a 61% increase instead of a 400% increase.
Catch-all Discussions » i really do not know why i bother,, i contacted ont. out door re-fees » 3/16/2021 7:00 am |
Is this the text of the petition?
Camping fees for back country sites have increased from about $12.00 per night to over $40.00. This is a price increase of over 400% and makes camping prohibitively expensive for solos or couples who love the outdoors. It is unfair and precludes the use of campsites by those of us who travel solo, many of whom have done volunteer work within some of the parks.
Trip Planning » Route comparison for two beginners? » 3/10/2021 7:08 am |
I'd recommend your Smoke and Achray destinations. But I would also emphasize that it doesn't have to be a big lake to get whipped up by high winds. You should be fine if you take an unplanned dip in August, but do be aware of approaching storms (they're easy to spot, hear and feel).
Both of those trips get you far enough from the access point to enjoy a sense of 'remoteness' and each has areas to explore for wildlife and natural beauty. The St. Andrews destination is great with a bit more to do and just two tiny portages to get there (you probably carry your gear further loading and unloading the car!). Especially the high falls waterslide area where you can laze away a day along with some picnicking and maybe a bit of frolic in there.
Catch-all Discussions » Park Fees...future » 3/05/2021 7:38 am |
You certainly could make a formal request through the Access to Information act. I'm sure there's a substantial amount of red tape to wade through that process and it may be incessantly delayed due to an inability to locate the estimates or the methods chosen to derive the estimates...or it could trigger a system-wide audit that disrupts the park service entirely for a month right around ice-out.
On second thought, let's just guess.
Catch-all Discussions » Park Fees...future » 3/03/2021 10:20 am |
The term leverage has multiple definitions; I intended to use it as a reference to gaining a benefit from the interaction, that benefit being the enjoyment of backcountry camping. I did not intend it to mean an unfair advantage. All users of the park 'leverage' the resource to their benefit regardless of their group size.
To demonstrate my objectivity, I have requested Barry removed me as a moderator. In this manner, I do not have to be concerned that I am in some way tarnishing the image of Algonquin Adventures.
Catch-all Discussions » Park Fees...future » 3/03/2021 9:57 am |
@ ShawnD - replace the word 'leverage' with 'utilize'. I do not intend a negative connotation to the term 'leverage' that you impart a sense of shame with but a swap to 'utilize' should sanitize the term.
@Peek - not sure how you expect me to provide a citation for the specific costs of a business which I do not have visibility to their accounting, but on a theoretical basis, if you envision an agency employee at a desk who takes two calls for a 5 night reservation and the fees from one call total $60 for a solo traveler and the fees from the other call total $80 for a group of travelers...the revenue generated is higher for the group booking. The expenses for those two calls are roughly equivalent if the time to conduct such an interaction is similar.
If your contention with "citation needed" is centered on the term 'leverage', just replace that with "utilize" and see how that feels.
I certainly do not intend to 'troll' - the language I used is not inflammatory (although both of you appear to dislike the term 'leverage' but I propose a, hopefully, more palatable term of 'utilize') and it is not off topic or distracting from the original subject. I don't frequent Reddit so I don't understand what you mean by 'shitpost' but it certainly seems derogatory. I pride myself on my ability to communicate and I take time to construct complete thoughts and concepts. I apologize if I have offended you in some way through my comments but I would recommend you read them for what they say and not for how they make you feel.
Catch-all Discussions » Park Fees...future » 3/03/2021 7:06 am |
Revenue is a two factor concept - it includes income and expenses. The expenses that an agency incurs in creating a reservation (that cost includes all components that have not been amortized like personnel, equipment, utilities, buildings, healthcare, etc.) is roughly equivalent for a solo person or a group. Creating a reservation for a solo camper generates far less income and a lower profit margin for the park.
Creating a model that is 'one size fits all' is a simple solution to streamline expenses and enhance operational efficiency. It may not be palatable to those who leveraged the system to their advantage (and the park's financial disadvantage) in the past but it now creates a 'level' playing field that establishes a single fee for the resource, regardless of how you choose to leverage it.
The solo camper business that the park 'loses' represents their lowest margin income of all reservations. For them to trim the lower revenue bookings makes good business sense. There are many arguments that can be promoted around the social impacts but they are founded upon an entirely different set of factors than the economic ones...and money drives many, many decisions at the end of the day.
Where In Algonquin? » WIA 448 » 3/01/2021 7:44 am |
I believe the best clue is in the bottom right-hand corner of the photo.
Trip Reports » Trip Report Map » 3/01/2021 7:23 am |
I do mine on paper...on a FOAP map I draw the lines of travel and put a dot on the campsites. Would be easy to do digital...but I doubt I would ever use it since I don't share much of my Algonquin experience (outside of this site) in any other medium than face-to-face.
Trip Planning » Reservations for 2021 so far. » 3/01/2021 7:18 am |
I find the focus on AP's attention/inattention of safety and interior rules quite interesting. Do we have similar concerns or expectations with other sources like this?
Consider a grocery store - when I purchase my fish for dinner they do nothing to tell me about safe food handling (it is sometimes printed on the package - much like the PFD and other safety reminders that are posted in the permit offices in Algonquin).
When I buy a car at a dealership - they require proof of a driver's license and insurance but they don't do anything to inquire or assess my knowledge of safely operating a deadly vehicle. The licensing system demonstrates that I passed an assessment at age 16...and is probably the closest thing to what we would all envision as 'helpful' - proof that I was instructed on safe operation and passed an assessment.
If I buy a shotgun for duck hunting...I show ID and I'm on my way.
The park barely has the funding and resources to manage its operational functions - is it reasonable to ask or expect them to conduct safety assessment and training for the 800,000 visitors (only a fraction of that number visit the interior - got that number off a site on the web, don't know how accurate it is) or should those visitors bear the brunt of their individual responsibility like they do in the grocery store, car dealership, gun shop, etc.?
Trip Planning » Reservations for 2021 so far. » 2/26/2021 6:06 am |
@ShawnD - I believe it is relatively simple, but I tend to boil things down too much sometimes. If you love a pristine environment then Algonquin or any park isn't for you (I don't mean you, individually, but 'you' as a group who loves pristine). Parks like AP are managed resources that have infrastructure built to handle human activity and have byproducts like cleared campsites, portages, trash and erosion as well.
Our 'free will' (some might say ignorance) allows us to make decisions on what direction to travel and where to throw our garbage. Not everyone makes the considerate decision and sometimes the inconsiderate actions are also unlawful and hopefully enforced.
Our anecdotal experiences, while very convincing to us personally, are often not representative of reality. You may have witnessed more garbage and less consideration, or you may have been more aware due to environmental elements. I don't doubt your perspective, sincerity or your dedication to being a good steward (we have a heavily biased group on AA and we are in no way representative of the larger population) and it is quite possible your perception is representative of the park as a whole, but it's an 'n' of one so has to be inconclusive.
The symptoms that worry you (and me and most others here, I expect) are related to that larger population - parks that are geographically accessible and designed for multi-use are going to experience the traffic and abuse, The other aspect that many of us find distasteful is the characteristic of change. The park has changed in the last decade and over our lifetime and will continue to do so. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse but normally judged from our own personal perspective.
Continue to do your part and hope the park uses their resources in a manner congruent to your interests. But if the divergence continues...don't be afraid to move on for more change. Adaptation is a tremendously powerful skill! And you
Trip Planning » Reservations for 2021 so far. » 2/24/2021 8:29 am |
@northernfox - Actually, the majority of the travel and social restrictions didn't begin until March of 2020 - so the comparative data is likely only skewed by an increase in interest this year instead of any decrease due to pandemic concerns last year. Regardless of the source of any variance, it is great news that more people are actively enjoying the outdoors. It presents opportunities for everyone - to learn, experience and share!
For those who feel this is bad and ruins their experience - move on towards the north and enjoy your journey!
Where In Algonquin? » WIA #445 » 2/17/2021 2:10 pm |
That's not Anchor Island, is it? Looks a little short in length and full in trees to be Anchor.