This isn’t an Ontario Parks thing. It’s a highway 60 thing. Most of AP outside of Hwy 60 and every park I’ve visited in Northern Ontario does not charge this booking fee. If I remember correctly from the last thread someone asked an OP employee and they said that OP left the decision up to each park or access point? I imagine eventually it will get charged everywhere as they ‘streamline/ standardize l’ things.

Prior owners have said to media that they put in a bid, don’t know why they lost and object to AO having a monopoly.

keg wrote:

Shayne74 wrote:

Did some research on the ursack now. I still see people hanging them as they are NOT scent proof so this may not fully remedy your problem. There's is an alternative called Opsack? ? , that advertises scent proof also. The last thing I would want is a hungry bear , now a pissed bear batting an Ursack around my campsite frustrated he can't get in to it Lol! I've never had an issue with a campsite bear, yet, so I'll continue as we have for now. Bear vault may be best option IMO.

I've used the OPSak for years.  IIRC, the Ursack used to include one, their product for claws, the OPSak to hopefully not need protection from claws.

I haven't done scientific testing but have left the OPSak on the ground in squirrel/racoon areas where there were no good trees without issue.

Of course user error can make them useless, for example sealing the bag with fish on your hands.

p.s.  I  recall there are different designes of Ursacks, one for critters and one for bears.

So for people unfamiliar, the Opsak is designed to go inside something else (like a ursack). No, a ursack isn’t scent proof. Neither is a blue barrel.

And ursack now has a version that is good for both critters and bears.

 

There is already a thread started on this. And I disagree that this will solve the problem. There was a way to fix this problem. This wasn’t it. The problem isn’t seniors who book in for 3 weeks using their full reservation. It’s the online booking system which results in bookings going unusued. All this does is prevent seniors from booking in for 3 weeks. I provided a more complete answer in the other thread. Hopefully Barry can merge them.

I also disagree that we need this on Hwy 60 in the backcountry. But you may have an easier time booking this summer. It sounds like the backcountry email will come early December and after if the predictions are true and they increase fees to 45$ a night there may be less bookings for the spring.

Peek wrote:

ChristineCanoes wrote:

Instead the main question seems to be how do we make the most money.

I think this is the fundamental issue here. As if a 100% increase in revenue over the last 10 years wasn't enough (and most of that within the last couple years) they still want more. Throwing around ideas like $43.50/night for a backcountry site. Or forcing pre-booking reservations to nab an extra $11 to $13 per permit holder.

It's almost as if the powers that be are doing everything possible to make the outdoors unaffordable. Could you imagine a world where... it's too expensive to... sleep in the woods? like w.t.f?

We're headed that way.
 

Honestly I think we are already there in some ways but yes I think those 40+$ nights are coming unfortunately. And I don’t pre book to avoid those 11-13$ fees but OP has people convinced they have to pay them. We had a thread the other day where people insisted the fee applied if you booked onsite. But it doesn’t. I’ve booked at multiple different parks this year without paying it.

And it’s a terrible cycle. Get people so concerned that they won’t get a site that they stay up to midnight to book 5 months in advance. Make money off every booking and cancellation. I know people who have paid more than 100$ in reservation fees on a 7 day trip because in Killarney the only way to piece together a route is to keep changing your reservation as things become available and they charge you every time you make a change. It’s deplorable.
 

tentsterforever wrote:

As to the products you mention Christine, why not pack the wrappers /bags/bottles of any of them out if you’re not sure?  It’s easy enough to use a ziplock for those items packed in plastics you’re not sure you can burn. That way you won’t have to worry about the regs.

 
Of course I will always pack out anything I take in. This was more a question about how others actually read the rules.

Honestly given the issues in the parks I think this is pretty small fish for Wardens. I’m really just interested in understanding what the regs actually say. You would think they would be clear but at this point I’m not clear on what is/ isn’t actually allowed 🤷🏻‍♀️

rgcmce wrote:

Do rangers (wardens) have the authority to search your food pack?

I believe they do based on probable cause. I think it is also perfectly acceptable to cordially ask for them to provide that probable cause to you. We once arrived at AP and due to a fire ban were told we had to open our packs and show the warden our stove before they would issue our permit.

The problem was we had 2 barrels and the stove was at the bottom of one of them.

Through a conversation we were able to convince the warden that we did have a stove, did know how to use it and weren’t intending to use a fire. As a result, we didn’t have to empty our pack.

I would have done it if necessary it just seemed like overkill because some other people in line were being unreasonable.
 

That’s really interesting. I had always assumed it was related to LNT practices.

Absolutely a ursack isn’t a guarantee but for me what it does do is help me be part of the solution not the problem.

Bears get habituated when people do things like take coolers into the backcountry. Then the bears start associating sites with food and they eventually figure out things like how to get blue barrels down, pop the lids, tear them open, etc. Some bears in the US have learned how to unlatch bear vaults.

To me the point of using a ursack is if the bear gets it, it is still pretty unlikely ( it impossible but unlikely) they will get a reward (food). So a big part of the reason I went to a ursack was simply to make sure I didn’t contribute to the problem.

YMMV.