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10/17/2022 3:31 pm  #1


did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

changes on the way,, reducing campsite stay times

 

10/17/2022 4:16 pm  #2


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

New rules do not apply to backcountry & are enforced between Canada Day and Labour Day.

Business as usual for those who stick to the backcountry...... For now.

 

10/17/2022 9:22 pm  #3


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

It seems to me like this won't really solve much of a capacity campground shortage at certain parks, after all certain parks are probably busy due to certain factors that are inherent to those busy parks.

Example: Instead of person A staying 3 weeks at Algonquin & person B staying 3 weeks at sand banks, You now have A doing Algonquin, sand banks, Algonquin, while  B does sandbanks, Algonquin, sandbanks. Demand at both parks is still unchanged.

I feel like this is done just for optics. Population growth continues, without growth in the number of parks in proximity to the population growth, so I don't see this problem going away without real drastic changes, but I know it won't be popular any which way you slice the changes.

 

10/18/2022 9:24 am  #4


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

I think the backcountry updates are coming. December is my prediction and I’m honestly terrified about what they are going to do to backcountry.

There is a super simple solution to all of this:

Get rid of the contracts and require people to go to a park office to book reservations. Require people to check in when they arrive at campsites with ID. Don’t allow transfers. If people don’t show, release the sites.

Many, many long time campers have pointed out that front country sites show as fully booked but are 1/2 empty.

The main question should be how do we make the parks accessible to the people of Ontario. Instead the main question seems to be how do we make the most money.

Last edited by ChristineCanoes (10/18/2022 9:25 am)

 

10/18/2022 9:32 am  #5


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

ChristineCanoes wrote:

Instead the main question seems to be how do we make the most money.

I think this is the fundamental issue here. As if a 100% increase in revenue over the last 10 years wasn't enough (and most of that within the last couple years) they still want more. Throwing around ideas like $43.50/night for a backcountry site. Or forcing pre-booking reservations to nab an extra $11 to $13 per permit holder.

It's almost as if the powers that be are doing everything possible to make the outdoors unaffordable. Could you imagine a world where... it's too expensive to... sleep in the woods? like w.t.f?

We're headed that way.
 

Last edited by Peek (10/18/2022 9:33 am)

 

10/18/2022 9:50 am  #6


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

Peek wrote:

ChristineCanoes wrote:

Instead the main question seems to be how do we make the most money.

I think this is the fundamental issue here. As if a 100% increase in revenue over the last 10 years wasn't enough (and most of that within the last couple years) they still want more. Throwing around ideas like $43.50/night for a backcountry site. Or forcing pre-booking reservations to nab an extra $11 to $13 per permit holder.

It's almost as if the powers that be are doing everything possible to make the outdoors unaffordable. Could you imagine a world where... it's too expensive to... sleep in the woods? like w.t.f?

We're headed that way.
 

Honestly I think we are already there in some ways but yes I think those 40+$ nights are coming unfortunately. And I don’t pre book to avoid those 11-13$ fees but OP has people convinced they have to pay them. We had a thread the other day where people insisted the fee applied if you booked onsite. But it doesn’t. I’ve booked at multiple different parks this year without paying it.

And it’s a terrible cycle. Get people so concerned that they won’t get a site that they stay up to midnight to book 5 months in advance. Make money off every booking and cancellation. I know people who have paid more than 100$ in reservation fees on a 7 day trip because in Killarney the only way to piece together a route is to keep changing your reservation as things become available and they charge you every time you make a change. It’s deplorable.
 

 

10/18/2022 9:59 am  #7


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

ChristineCanoes wrote:

And I don’t pre book to avoid those 11-13$ fees but OP has people convinced they have to pay them. We had a thread the other day where people insisted the fee applied if you booked onsite. But it doesn’t. I’ve booked at multiple different parks this year without paying it.

I'll pre-book when necessary, but I also kept hearing about the reservation fee applying even for an on-site check in.. which, if true, would be wack. But I tested that theory last weekend and it's not true. I walked in to the Kearney permit office without a reservation, obtained a permit for two nights and that was that. No reservation fee, nothing else. Just $24.86 for the two nights. As it should be.

But again, A LOT of people out there are under a different impression.

 

10/18/2022 10:06 am  #8


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

Peek wrote:

ChristineCanoes wrote:

And I don’t pre book to avoid those 11-13$ fees but OP has people convinced they have to pay them. We had a thread the other day where people insisted the fee applied if you booked onsite. But it doesn’t. I’ve booked at multiple different parks this year without paying it.

I'll pre-book when necessary, but I also kept hearing about the reservation fee applying even for an on-site check in.. which, if true, would be wack. But I tested that theory last weekend and it's not true. I walked in to the Kearney permit office without a reservation, obtained a permit for two nights and that was that. No reservation fee, nothing else. Just $24.86 for the two nights. As it should be.

But again, A LOT of people out there are under a different impression.

No one should ever have to pay that fee. But by creating this fear that you won’t be able to get a site people pre book. Which I totally get but I swear this is part of the design. Create the sense of scarcity. If everyone who wanted to camp just showed up there are actually enough sites in all but a few exceptions (long weekend in summer for example). The reservation system is literally causing the scarcity problem and allowing people who break the rules to make money off OP at the expense of regular users. It’s so frustrating.
 

 

10/18/2022 2:23 pm  #9


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

Peek wrote:

But again, A LOT of people out there are under a different impression.

I feel like maybe a pinned post on reservations, hints & tips would be useful. When I can, I will definitely be booking in person at the park in the future.

I was also under the impression in park reservations incurred a fee due to the OntarioParks.com website under Fees->Reservation fees, clearly has a heading with "Reservation Fees for Call Centre and Park".  The "and Park" is very misleading as this implies that both the Call Centre and Park incur the $13 booking fee.

 

10/27/2022 2:55 pm  #10


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

Peek wrote:

IBut I tested that theory last weekend and it's not true. I walked in to the Kearney permit office without a reservation, obtained a permit for two nights and that was that. No reservation fee, nothing else. Just $24.86 for the two nights. As it should be.

But again, A LOT of people out there are under a different impression.

Well... Ontario Parks is so fn disorganized that they don't have a clue what is going on and are completely inconsistent.

What a difference a week can make... Both of these screenshots are in-person check-ins, without a reservation. One in Kearney (No reservation fee), the other at the East Gate (Yes reservation fee). Oh and the East Gate swears up and down that no, I never obtained a permit without paying a reservation fee and Im either an idiot or lying.... until I came back from my car and showed her my actual permit from the previous week. Then it became 'they didnt charge you, but they should have'.. honestly.. is there an extra 'rip off the camper' button that the first person forgot to press? This is getting ridiculous. Seriously. The administration of Algonquin is slowly eroding my love for the park. They are murdering it with red tape, unnecessary fees and obtuse changes. Keep it up OP! I'll find some crown land, thanks.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/3b3f36e6b2bbcc27f0454bbbc445fc5b?AccessKeyId=9B9EB71F74E7C63BBCC2&disposition=0&alloworigin=1


http://nebula.wsimg.com/5dc604fca6751f75eecd3247a02b0386?AccessKeyId=9B9EB71F74E7C63BBCC2&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

 

 

10/27/2022 4:03 pm  #11


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

user fees and service charges make the world go around,,  
   you must hate banks,, 

     Thread Starter
 

10/27/2022 4:07 pm  #12


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

swedish pimple wrote:

user fees and service charges make the world go around,,  
   you must hate banks,, 

You bet I do - I work for one. Some pretty evil stuff goes down on the inside, believe that.

But in this case, it's not so much about the fees (tho it is a bit) it's about inconsistent business practices. Why was I charged two different prices for the exact same product? That's my gripe.

 

10/28/2022 7:59 am  #13


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

Reservation fee at the gate is up to the individual park's discretion as per the person I spoke to at the 1 800 booking phone line. Clear as mud. It was obvious I wasn't her first complainant on this topic.

 

10/30/2022 12:00 pm  #14


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

Pam.Hutchison@ontario.ca,, 
        perhaps this person could shed some light on the reservation charges that have been floated around,,  the policy language on this refund shit show should be in writing some where???
       day passes were some crazy amount like $17.50 several years ago,, one morning before the west gate opened i put a $20 in the drop box and got my day permit and i took off for the day,,
     on my way home the west gate was open so i stopped in and asked for my change back from the $20.00 day pass permit,, we had quite the dialogue about my refund , with me argueing my point with several west gate staff members,, long story short, i got my change back and a medium double double and a cookie minden,,  
  

Last edited by swedish pimple (10/30/2022 12:08 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

10/31/2022 6:43 am  #15


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

I think highway 60 is always a sign of what is to come. If they have started charging the reservation fee I imagine it will end up everywhere eventually. I’ll continue to book in person as often as possible. I pretty much stay away from the Hwy 60 corridor.

I think in this case asking questions will just lead to them charging the fee everywhere rather than nowhere so I really hope people don’t contact the park about this. If we can’t keep the park from charging 40$ for a backcountry site - which seems to be coming- we can at least hopefully avoid paying reservation fees by not drawing attention to this.

Last edited by ChristineCanoes (10/31/2022 6:47 am)

 

10/31/2022 8:03 am  #16


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

I feel ya, Christine. I'm not a fan of the highway 60 corridor at all - over used and heavily abused. In fact, my trip wasn't anywhere near 60 but I figured since I had to drive right by the East Gate, might as well grab my permit in person and save $13 bucks. Nope.

If this is the game they wanna play - then maybe my new game will be always booking my trips a day short and 'spraining my ankle' on that last day. I can game the system too, if that's what they want.

 

10/31/2022 4:24 pm  #17


Re: did ya get the m.n.r. e-mail yet??

Peek wrote:

If this is the game they wanna play - then maybe my new game will be always booking my trips a day short and 'spraining my ankle' on that last day. I can game the system too, if that's what they want.

They would probably still ticket your vehicle saying it shouldn't be parked there regardless... anything for a dollar.
Another suggestion is to park on crown land to access the backcountry... for example Tim River access is crown land - as is Wendigo, Craig Lake, etc. They cannot do anything about your vehicle parked there and no one needs to know where you are. ;-)

 

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