I emailed Ontario Parks inquiring the logic behind these changes and explaining the impact it will have on smaller groups. Here's their reply (with some redaction). It's the bolded, underlined part that concerns me as I don't recall car camping have relevance to Temagami (but I'm not as well-travelled as others). It sounds more like a decision based on system implementation convenience than any customer experience considerations.

Hi *********,

Thank you for your feedback. Ontario Parks is making this change in order to simplify the booking process by streamlining the backcountry fee structure and making it consistent with our car camping fee model.

We appreciate your feedback, and will share it with our reservation team.

Regards,

Ontario Parks

TripperMike wrote:

I haven't done any camping in the area, but is there any drive in camping in Massassauga?

 
No, but one of the access points where you pick up your permits is Oastler Lake PP where there is car camping.

John Connelly wrote:

As Algonquin is still a bargain ... maybe some less fortunate will be forced to spend more time paddling the Gonq .....what a shame to have to make such sacrifices .

Sacrifices are not shameful. Requiring and cheering people to make them is shameful.
 

scoutergriz wrote:

"the cost of fuel to get there" is not the major cost for many! I live near the GTA and can get to Temagami and back with 2 tanks or about $120, and If I take my wife's SUV, it's about $50. Under the new system a week will cost me over $200 in fees!
Hardly insignificant, especially if you're on CPP and only getting $1168 a month 

 
I remember in the past that part of the mandate of Ontario Parks was to make outdoor adventures accessible to the people and at a low cost. Think of a scene where a lone paddler is reconnecting with the Temagami wilderness but now you’ll be thinking that he’s paying well over $300 to go on a week long trip. 17 years ago the cost was zero.

Now it seems that the “reservations team” has aligned the backcountry experience with car camping so that they could deal with a simplified booking process. Are these the same guys that removed functionality from the previous reservation system? Did they not also advertise that the permit system would be automated but later it turned out that in parks like Algonquin people will still be inconvenienced by having to visit a permit office rather than being able to get an early start in the morning.

This topic is up over at myccr.com as well and one of the responses from Ontario Parks posted there has the below line. Tells me its only a matter of time till AP adopts it. 

"Ontario Parks is moving from the current per-person-per-night fee to a flat-per-campsite fee model for backcountry camping. By doing so we are streamlining the backcountry fee structure across the province and making it consistent with our car camping fee model."

Last edited by ShawnD (2/19/2020 10:12 am)

Ah yes - punishing the soloist/tandem group to streamline the process.

Think about it logically - at $43/night (for example) versus the $125 Illegally occupy campsite fine.. guess which route a lot of soloists/tandems might end up taking. This will decrease revenues instead of increase, given that you can't catch and fine everyone. It would be wise for them to just keep collecting $12.43 per person per night, or simply $12.43 per campsite per night.  I suppose it all depends on what the set amount per campsite per night is. lol could you imagine paying $43/night for a backcountry site? Even with the current per person per night fee structure, the value doesn't begin until 4 or more people are in your group.

Guess i need more camping friends now.

Methye wrote:

Knock-on effect for outfitters I guess, too.

I trip 2-4 times a year in Algonquin,3-8 nights each time. I go solo. Since there is no immediate plan to apply the flat-fee-per-site model to Algonquin Park yet (Temagami and Mississauga only this year), there will be no change to my behaviour in 2020.

However, if this rolls out across the province, that would reduce my trips to Algonquin to 1 per year (with a group). I spend $100 to over $200 on each solo trip renting a canoe, so about $200 to well over $1000 a year depending on my work schedule. Algonquin Outfitters will no longer see that money.  It's too bad. I know it's small potatoes, but it's something.

 
It would add up I think. Outfitters solo canoe fleets would shrink accordingly. If I were managing an outfitter I would be asking the Ministry for their plans before I went ordering any more solo boats.

nvm wrote:

ShawnD wrote:

It would become a nightmare. Off permit people everywhere. Check the reservation system thinking there's no one else booked on given lakes only to show up and see several others there.
 

 
Of course, with the new system even that isn’t possible.

Imagine if it was always flat rate per site, and you were never able to see the # of reservations on a given lake. Then imagine if they announced "We're making some changes! Camping fees will now be variable depending on how many people are in your group, so fees are fair regardless of how many people are in your trip. Also when you make a reservation online, you'll now be able to see how many campsites are on your desired lakes, and how many of those campsites are still available for reservation." We'd be losing our minds with how amazing those things are. Just shows how backwards everything is right now.