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I am thinking about heading to kiosk for a single night tomorrow. They are calling for a low of-4 and my sleeping bag is reading for-7. It's a synthetic bag made by mec, I believe it's called a Perseus. I plan on bringing a quilt to lay under my sleeping pad as well as another quilt to weak myself up in/drape over myself if I get cold in the night. Last year I used this method one night when it reached-2 but I remember waking up a few times in the night rather cold. Should I just stay home and go on Monday with a low of 8 degrees? Any other methods I can try to keep warm?
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Pour hot water into a nalgene. Put the nalgene into the sleeping bag a few minutes before you go to bed. Or if you want to be more oldschool about it, let a rock sit in your fire all evening, wrap it in a bandana and use it instead of the nalgene.
Also wear a toque.
Also bring more wool socks than you think you'll need.
And maybe some of those handwarmers from canadian tire, as an emergency backup.
Winter campers will sometimes do a round of vigorous calisthenics right before bed, just so the sleeping bag starts out with extra body heat to hold onto.
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Throwing another sleeping bag or a blanket over top of the sleeping bag you are in will do a lot to help keep the warmth in... you want something lightweight that will not compress the loft of your regular sleeping bag below. A heavy wool blanket wouldn't be good on top of a down sleeping bag but a light summer sleeping bag over top should be OK.
Another way is to put one sleeping bag inside another, if the outer bag doesn't compress the inner one too much.
Also wearing clothes, like a track suit, sweater, fleece, etc. (not too comfortable but works if you are getting cold).
Don't forget that temps inside tents should be warmer than temps outside so you might be OK (unless it's windy).
PS... one of the greatest things about fall camping is being snug and comfy in the tent, and hearing the cold wind howling through the trees outside. Stay warm!
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I will definitely use the warm water in a bottle idea. What I might do is bring my sleeping bag rated for 0 degrees and essentially put my-7 bag inside of it. The-7 bag is mummy style with a hood where as the 0 degree bag is generously full size. Under that I will have the quilt and sleeping pad. I am considering going through highway 60 somewhere because it is supposed to be 2 degrees warmer. That be the case I think I will be okay.
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DanPM's suggestion of calisthenics is a good one. To build on that, do them inside your bag. Sounds strange but you can pump out some push ups or crunches while you're all bundled up. This warms up you and the bag around you. If you wake up cold, do some more. It's not exactly an activity that sends you off to dreamland but it works!
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Lots of good ideas! Although I've never done exercises before bed. Eating fatty foods right before bed helps get the furnace going. One trick I use is to have a hot chocolate with a dollup of butter in it at bed time. Not too much liquid or you'll have to get up and pee.
The other thing to save up for is a thermarest x-therm mattress. Makes a huge difference! With this mattress I can take a -7 bag with base layers and a fleece down to -7 with ease. I can take a 0 degree bag combined with a -7 bag down below -20. Eating before bed and using a hot water bottle really helps.
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We were up on Tim Lake a week or so ago and it got down to 0 degrees. I had my fall bag which is rated to -9 and I got a bit chilly on the first night (I tend to sleep cold). For the following nights I did the boiling water in a Nalgene trick and ate some chocolate before bed. I was MUCH warmer when I did those two simple things. Oh and if you have to pee in the night, don't hold it...your body wastes a lot of energy warming your bladder (or so I'm told).
In the past when temps get a little lower than this, I've used my down bag inside my synthetic summer bag and it worked really well.
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You don't mention if you are generally a "cold" or "hot" sleeper and as Steve suggests, this definitely would be a variable in what works for you but if we assume a neutral position on that, then your bag should be fine, My usual bag for this time of year is an old MEC Nighthawk 2 which is only rated to 0C but keeps me warm even below freezing. It's your sleep system as a whole that you have to look at.
A couple of thoughts:
- You should have a pad that provides enough insulation. For this time of year I would suggest you should be looking at a pad with an R-value between R=3 and R=5. If your pad 's rating is below this or on the low end of the range you can supplement it by adding a closed-cell pad to increase the R-value. For example: a Therm-A-Rest Prolite has a R=2.4. Add a standard blue closed-cell foam pad with a R=1.4 and you now have an insulation value of R=3.8. Adding a second pad has the added advantage of providing additional insulation should your primary pad spring a leak while on the trip.
- As others have mentioned, what you wear is another consideration. Bear in mind that sleeping bag ratings assume you are appropriately dressed for the ambient temperature so a tuque, long underwear/fleece and warm socks will make a big difference. Another suggestion, often overlooked, is to have sleep-dedicated clothing. That means what you wear to bed is only worn to bed. The clothing your wear in camp, even if it seems completely dry, contains moisture from having been worn through the day and this can make a big difference if how warm it keeps you during the night.
- I, too, have tried the Nalgene filled with hot water. It won't last through the night but put it in your bag 30 minutes before climbing in and it is very welcoming.
Dave
Last edited by Algonquintripper (10/15/2015 10:42 pm)
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Dave I actually have good luck and find my Nalgene still fairly warm in the morning for some reason. I put it in a wool sock, so not sure if that helps?
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Steve E wrote:
Dave I actually have good luck and find my Nalgene still fairly warm in the morning for some reason. I put it in a wool sock, so not sure if that helps?
I'm sure you're right, Steve. It's been a few years since I used this trick so my memory may not be 100%. I also used a sock over the bottle as this was suggested in the initial post where I first heard of the idea (not sure where but probably backpacker.com) and I agree with you it probably does allow the bottle to retain it's heat longer but I think the main reason for the sock cozy is to protect against burning as the bottle is pretty hot initially.
Another safety thought: I would not use any non-Nalgene type of bottle for this such as a Gatorade or even a Platypus. Nalgene is rated for such hot temps and are guaranteed against leaking. I would not have the same confidence in the others.
A hot Nalgene bottle, by the way, is also a good way to speed up the drying of wet socks or boots as well.
Last edited by Algonquintripper (10/16/2015 10:08 am)
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I don't mean to highjack the thread but this it the exact same topic so hopefully this is kosher.
I'm in the market for a new bag and I don't really know what temp rating to get. We mainly camp in the summer but we also like to car camp (tenting) in the shoulder seasons (as early as March and as late as late Oct). I sleep cold and don't mind being a bit warm in the summer and I could always use my old, lighter weight bag for hot, hot weather trips.
What sort of temp rating should I be looking for. I never know if brands are advertising a temp where you'd be comfortable or a temp where you'd survive (some brands do specify, which is nice but most don't). I'd prefer to be comfortable than to survive.
I also don't want to spend a million dollars. Under $200 would be ideal so I think that cuts out down as an option. Thoughts on what I should look for re: temp range.
Other things that I'll look for: packability, weight, mummy style with head cinchability but still room for my wider-than-adventure-gear-average hips.
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Late Oct might mean temps dropping down to -10C so buy accordingly... this will be too warm for midsummer comfort so the thinner bag you have now could be used then.
I wouldn't choose a mummy bag unless weight savings are critical. Fall camping means long nights and spending time in the tent, reading, listening to the radio, going outside from time to time, all more comfortable with a roomy sleeping bag.
PS... the advantage that synthetic fill often has over down is wet synthetic fill will retain it's loft better and will be warmer when wet, so that lower-cost synthetic option might actually be a benefit if weather becomes cold and stormy... good luck.... (OTOH the downside of synthetics is their loft may not last as long as down will, with the down option keeping you warmer, longer, over many years).
Last edited by frozentripper (10/19/2015 9:17 am)
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most bags are rated for survival, not comfort, some mfr's give both ratings. Generally the "survival" rating is about 3c lower than the "comfort" rating so if there is only one temperature rated, simply subtract 3C or 10F from that.
There are several other factors to consider too; How physically tired you are- less energy means less body heat to burn. What you wear; good dry long johns can add 3-5c to your system. What's under you; a good, thick pad generally insulates better than a thin one, a blanket over the pad provides even more insulation. The weather can make a huge difference too; windy or wet conditions can rob you of heat very quickly, and if it's damp, it's hard to thoroughly dry your bag each day and can lead to moisture buildup.
When buying a bag, I suggest you try it in the store before buying. Lay it out and get in it. Check for ease of entry and exit, wiggle around and see if you have enough room for sleeping, and look for bad or missed stitching, weak points, etc.
If the store won't let you do this, look somewhere else. Sleeping bags are a big investment and need to be "test driven" before buying.
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@CanoeClaire
For that price range I think you should ideally be looking at a synthetic bag listed as being "women specific". You won't be able to get a quality down bag at that price point and if you expect to use it primarily for canoe tripping and car camping, synthetic would probably be the preferred option at any rate. Women specific bags are designed with a women's anatomy in mind - narrower shoulders, wider hips, and extra insulation in the upper body and foot box as many women are colder sleepers, as you are. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of choice (MEC only has 2 options) but a unisex bag will expand your options and still likely suit your needs.
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Claire EN ratings can be helpful - my 3 season bag has 3 ratings - lowest is the 'extreme', middle is men's rating, high rating is women's rating. MEC does not use them but most others do. Basically keep in mind that sleeping bag ratings are generally based on an average man. From what I understand even women's bags are rated based on an average man - the insulation is shifted in the bag BUT the amount if insulation for a given temp rating is the same for unisex and women's bags (which makes no sense if you think about the principles underlying EN ratings).
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Thanks everyone! This is the exact info I needed. I always laugh at my husband when he makes excel documents comparing potential purchases but I may just have to do that!
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Does the "we" in post #11 refer to the same husband? Is your shoulder-season camping generally with him? And is he also in the market for a new sleeping bag at a similar price point?
Because you might want to consider a 2-person sleeping bag. Cheaper and less bulky than two seperate bags of comparable quality, and sharing the bag makes a big temperature difference. MEC has two models from Big Agnes and they're both well under your budget if it's per person, I recently bought the more expensive one at $309. It (both of them actually) have neat features like internal sleeves to hold your pad and pillow so you don't have to worry about sliding off them.
There are also of course lots of single sleeping bags that can be zipped together with another bag of the same model to from a double bag, which would have the same thermal advantages as a 2-person bag. Not as cheap per person or as convenient to use as a 2-person bag, but would be a good idea if you sometimes go cold-weather camping without him, or if your sleeping bag upgrade schedules aren't quite in synch.
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