greenthinker wrote:

Was actually thinking of starting a thread called "leave it or pack it out?", as sometimes it's tough to carry trash out, such as on a long backpacking trip, yet I hate leaving it.  Empty fuel canister - leave or take out? Broken deck chair - leave or take out? Discarded nalgene bottle - leave or pack out?

The answer is always to pack it out. It's no tougher to carry trash out than it is to carry it in. If you bring it in with you, bring it out with you.

greenthinker wrote:

While not perfect, removing that requirement to check in, have human contact with staff, and be reminded about garbage is probably going to cause problems this year, with people being able to just head into backcountry.

Unfortunately I don't think the check in would make a big difference. People know that they shouldn't be leaving trash behind, they just don't care. I think it's more an issue of "COVID campers" people that are venturing into the backcountry but don't have the same respect for the outdoors that more 'enthusiasts' have. Last year I saw tons of things that would be super easy to pack out, like face masks and garbage wrappers... it's not a matter of inconvenience for those people, they just simply don't care.
 

Trippy Things:
"The answer is always to pack it out. It's no tougher to carry trash out than it is to carry it in. If you bring it in with you, bring it out with you."

Heavens to Betsy!!! I meant OTHER people's giant mounds of trash and deciding how much I can physically manage to haul out. Not my own trash (never ever would leave anything behind). Sometimes it's not all that easy to bring other people's garbage out, when you're loaded to capacity.  I like to leave things better than I found them. That's getting tougher and tougher (and it started well before the pandemic).

Last edited by greenthinker (7/19/2021 9:13 pm)

The worst is when someone has piled up trash in the thunderbox. Where possible, I McGyver a system with sticks, to remove what's reachable, and pack that out.  Not fun. In an ideal world, people who go backcountry would have to first pass a test (maybe online, as with boating licenses?) on how to properly handle dish/grey water, sanitation issues, etc. The things no one really talks about with newbies.  And no one tells people checking in about how to handle women-specific sanitation issues (I suspect new women campers are not knowledgeable about how to pack out their sanitation products/waste). There really needs to be extensive education on this.

Last edited by greenthinker (7/20/2021 10:47 am)

'Leave it or pack it out?'

I packed it out and sold it on Kijiji. Still disappointing to see it at the site along with all the other stuff that was abandoned there- mostly new, very low quality camping equipment and packaging. 

nvm.   Would you not consider what you did to be basically a backcountry form of 'theft'?  The "packing it out and sold it on Kijiji" part.  They have a interesting thread on myccr about ghost tents you should check out.  According to the rules and regulations the maximum stay in Algonquin on one site is 16 nights.  So I'm curious how you got to decide that it was time for that gear to go and for you to sell it? 
   

Clarkey71 wrote:

nvm.   Would you not consider what you did to be basically a backcountry form of 'theft'?  The "packing it out and sold it on Kijiji" part.  They have a interesting thread on myccr about ghost tents you should check out.  According to the rules and regulations the maximum stay in Algonquin on one site is 16 nights.  So I'm curious how you got to decide that it was time for that gear to go and for you to sell it? 
   

No. I wouldn’t consider it backcountry threat. If you actually read my post you would have rad the only item I sold was a dirty bbq that was left at the dumpster   The other items found on backcountry campsites were single items left on a log or hanging on a tree etc. And the fact I pack out a whole bag of garbage and multiple grills would suggest I have a pretty good set of ethics , morals and trying to leave the backcountry on a better position than I found it.

Lukatch.  If you actually read my post it wasn't directed to you at all.  It was directed to nvm.  

I guess I need to provide the full set of circumstances to avoid being immediately judged as a thief!

It was a small lake with 2 sites on it. We had one reservation for the weekend, and the second site was already booked when I made my reservation. When we arrived at the lake you could see one party set up on the other site, and you couldn't see the site with the green tent on it. We paddled over to the unoccupied site and were surprised to see a tent set up, as well as other garbage (or unrelinquished possessions, depending on your perspective I guess): A brand new, incredibly low quality fishing rod/reel missing some parts, which were later found strewn around the campsite, The packaging for said fishing rod as well as other fishing gear, A 1/3 full glass bottle of Appleton's rum, Miscellaneous other garbage/packaging. Naturally, we immediately assumed that the site was occupied (illegally, as we were the second permit holder for the lake that night) and pondered our next step. The tenants of the other site on the lake walked over (the sites are in pretty close proximity) and we chatted about the tent and the fact that when they arrived on the lake they also assumed that site was taken so they went to the other site. However, no one had shown up to the green tent in the hours between when they arrived and we arrived. 

We all decided that in fact, the tent had been abandoned. That perception was reinforced by taking a look inside the tent (breaking and entering?)- it was completely empty save for the inch of rain water pooled in the low end (thanks Canadian Tire). With that, we decided to declare the items abandoned, and proceeded to set up on our reserved site (yes, I understand you don't reserve specific sites in Algonquin- again, 2 sites on the lake, 2 permit holders in attendance on the lake, we each get one). Over the next 2 days no one showed up to claim their garbage. When we left we packed up all our stuff, and all the garbage, and left the site in nice, clean condition for the next occupants. 

Our best guess is that it was a brand new (to camping) couple who were staying there. It rained on them for a day or two and they got sick of being soaked in their crappy tent, so they just abandoned ship. They took the contents of the tent, but not the tent. The reason for that was quite clear when I packed it out- it's a god awful 'pop-up' piece of junk that you have to do a complicated rolling manoeuvre to folding into its most compact form, which is not very compact! It was an absolute pain to cart out in addition to all of our stuff (it had to be carried in hand, which you want to minimize on portages). 



So ya, given that the tent was basically new, I decided both to keep it out of the trash and compensate myself for my troubles, and I sold it on Kijiji. I've also been known to salvage perfectly good items from people's trash piles on garbage night and sold that stuff on Kijiji. If keeping garbage out of landfills and providing it a second life makes me a thief, well lock me up because I don't think I can change.

I have also removed a water logged full twin sized foam mattress (like the kind you would put on a bed) from the island site on Sunday lake. That was without value to me or anyone else, so I threw it in a dumpster at the park office on the way out. I don't know if that qualifies as stealing someone's bed or not, but again I make no apologies, in that setting it was trash.