Algonquin Adventures / Micro-Drone (less than 250g)

**Posted by Hass** 1/05/2021 10:04 pm

Hello people of the Park!

I'm considering purchasing the DJI Mini 2 drone, and I'm curious to know if anyone here knows what the Parks policy is for these micro-drones.

My understanding is the drone regulations apply to all drones over the 250g weight class and not micro-drones.

From Transport Canada:

[size=75]While there are no prescriptive elements of the regulations, there is an expectation that the pilot of a micro drone to use good judgment, identify potential hazards, and take all necessary steps to avoid any risks associated with flying your drone.

As a good practice, you should always:[/size]

maintain the drone in direct line of sight
do not fly your drone above 400 feet in the air
keep a safe distance between your drone and any bystanders
stay far away from aerodromes, airport, heliport and waterdrome
avoid flying near critical infrastructures
stay clear of aircrafts, at all time
do a pre-flight inspection of your drone
keep the drone close enough to maintain the connection with the remote controller
avoid advertised events

Follow these guidelines to avoid flying in a negligent or reckless manner and being subject to fines. Enjoy a safe flight and minimize the risk of incidents. Remember: if you feel that your flight is risky, don’t do it.

**Posted by Zemantics** 1/05/2021 10:39 pm

I don't think you will get much positive review on this post, but I could be wrong. I just know that flying your drone near my campsite will put your drone at risk.

**Posted by Jdbonney** 1/06/2021 6:58 am

Drones aren’t permitted in Ontario provincial parks regardless of their size.

**Posted by RCSpartan** 1/06/2021 9:11 am

I'm with Zemantics. You may experience significant AA flak if you fly a drone by my site. Also, as mentioned already, there's a ban on drones in the park.

**Posted by RobW** 1/06/2021 10:37 am

The Transport Canada rules that you are referencing define the conditions under which you are required to have a license in order to operate a drone. Those specific rules don't define things like 'closed airspaces' where you are not allowed to fly.

As has been mentioned, Ontario Parks has rather lazily just pointed to their existing rules prohibiting aircraft from taking off or landing within a provincial park and chosen to apply those rules to drones, which those rules were never intended for.

Personally, I find most of the concerns around drones to be blown way out of proportion. I completely agree that there need to be decent 'rules of etiquette'. For example, wandering through some one else's campsite on foot, particularly in the backcountry, is completely unacceptable. Based on those existing expectations, flying a drone around some one else's campsite would be equally unacceptable. While we have all experienced rudeness in the real world, it isn't the norm and I don't think there is any good reason to jump to the conclusion that people are going to go out of their way to be more rude just because they want to use a drone to create some really cool pictures and video (which will be for their own personal use 95+% of the time).

While I don't expect it to happen quickly, I am still hopeful that Ontario Parks and Parks Canada will eventually spend some time meaningfully thinking about drones and putting together constructive rules and guidelines for recreational use.

**Posted by RCSpartan** 1/06/2021 10:56 am

@RobW You bring up some valid points and for sure drone are not going away anytime soon. Guaranteed the vast majority just want to try out their machine and land some killer pics. Of course there's always the other ~5% who don't respect other camper's privacy.

In terms of setting up a frame work of rules for flying objects, I may be a bit more open minded to it if OPP consider fly in beer resupply via drone.

**Posted by PaPaddler** 1/06/2021 11:18 am

I find it a bit odd that some are concerned about their privacy when in a public place. If that is your predominant concern, stay home in your private setting.

There are many actual or potential 'infringements' on your privacy when in public that can be visual, auditory and olfactory - I guess the question is where do we draw a line on which ones are 'offensive' and which ones are 'acceptable'?

**Posted by Jdbonney** 1/06/2021 11:29 am

You have a reasonable expectation of privacy on your campsite. Walking a portage or hiking trail, out in your canoe, driving along hwy 60, at the trailhead etc... go nuts and film people or take photos but I believe by any reasonable standard you should expect to be able to walk around your campsite naked and not be filmed.

**Posted by Jdbonney** 1/06/2021 11:33 am

I guess I should clarify I’m speaking of your interior campsite. And walking around naked being an extreme example.

**Posted by trippythings** 1/06/2021 11:37 am

On one hand, having a drone would help me get some beautiful shots for my videos and trip/campsite reports... but on the other hand, like everyone has pointed out, it can be a disturbance to other campers and arguably an invasion of privacy if misused.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is its effect on wildlife. This video went viral and I remember at the time there was lots of back-and-forth about whether the animals were aware of the drone, and whether it impacted the natural event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akGWOpcWfrQ

Obviously this is a very unique scenario but still interesting to think about.

**Posted by Hass** 1/06/2021 12:25 pm

RobW wrote:
The Transport Canada rules that you are referencing define the conditions under which you are required to have a license in order to operate a drone. Those specific rules don't define things like 'closed airspaces' where you are not allowed to fly.

As has been mentioned, Ontario Parks has rather lazily just pointed to their existing rules prohibiting aircraft from taking off or landing within a provincial park and chosen to apply those rules to drones, which those rules were never intended for.

Personally, I find most of the concerns around drones to be blown way out of proportion. I completely agree that there need to be decent 'rules of etiquette'. For example, wandering through some one else's campsite on foot, particularly in the backcountry, is completely unacceptable. Based on those existing expectations, flying a drone around some one else's campsite would be equally unacceptable. While we have all experienced rudeness in the real world, it isn't the norm and I don't think there is any good reason to jump to the conclusion that people are going to go out of their way to be more rude just because they want to use a drone to create some really cool pictures and video (which will be for their own personal use 95+% of the time).

While I don't expect it to happen quickly, I am still hopeful that Ontario Parks and Parks Canada will eventually spend some time meaningfully thinking about drones and putting together constructive rules and guidelines for recreational use.

Thanks for everyone's comments! @RobW this was exactly my purpose of the question! I can definitely agree with the ban on larger drones but this was specific to micro-drones.

I've been coming to the Park for many years now and would absolutely be mindful of other campers/wildlife around. My purpose would be to just get a few shots rowing down the lake or the landscape, etc but I can't speak for others who may bring drones into the park and cause a disturbance.

I wish there was more clarity on this!

**Posted by Rob** 1/06/2021 1:42 pm

Drones of any size are defined as aircraft.
Aircraft can not operate under 500 feet altitude in the Park.
Drones can not operate above an altitude of 300 feet or beond line of sight without proper licence.
So the big question is why are these laws not being enforced?

Re the allowed ceiling I was under the understanding that it was 300 feet, not 400. Either way it is below the allowed altitude that aircraft are allowed to operate within the park.

Last edited by Rob (1/06/2021 1:46 pm)

**Posted by RobW** 1/06/2021 1:58 pm

Jdbonney wrote:
You have a reasonable expectation of privacy on your campsite. Walking a portage or hiking trail, out in your canoe, driving along hwy 60, at the trailhead etc... go nuts and film people or take photos but I believe by any reasonable standard you should expect to be able to walk around your campsite naked and not be filmed.

Mostly agreed with a couple of notes:

1) Taking pictures of people in public for personal use is legal without consent. However any commercial use, including submitting to a stock photo site requires a model release. The point is that formal, legal rules on the use of photo and video content already exist.

2) Inexpensive point and shoot superzoom cameras make it far easier to capture those invasive photos and videos than a drone does. In fact using a drone would be blatantly obvious while you probably won't notice the person with the super zoom.

**Posted by RobW** 1/06/2021 2:04 pm

Hass wrote:
...
I wish there was more clarity on this!

The current rules are quite clear. There is a hard ban on drones taking off or landing in a provincial park.

**Posted by MartinG** 1/06/2021 5:03 pm

Please dont bring your micro drone to algonquin.

Last edited by MartinG (1/06/2021 5:06 pm)

**Posted by GordK** 1/07/2021 12:45 pm

People wandering through our site, 30 cigarette butts around our site when we arrive, any trash any place in the park, late night lake guitars, tin boats with motors competing with loon call, careless fires left burning… there are a lot of annoyances we have to deal with every year. Like anything, the deeper in the park you go the less likely these things become. I suspect the same would be true of drones.

None of the things I have mentioned help nature or animals in the park so from that perspective let’s get rid of them all. However, if we look at it from a perspective of enjoying the park, alone among the list is drone footage for producing some perspectives of the park I have really enjoyed. Footage in Killarney is particularly dramatic but no, I don’t want a drone buzzing around while I’m at the top of Silver Peak. Since park staff already can’t keep up with issues I would say the blanket ban makes the most sense. However, I do think it is reasonable that occasional permits be issued on application for drone operation within very defined windows in terms of location, date, time. This may already be possible (not sure). And impact could be somewhat mitigated with a notice on Park feeds so if you really hate the idea you could avoid a certain location on a certain date.

**Posted by ShawnD** 1/07/2021 10:36 pm

I’m firmly in the no drones in AP camp. Not that it really matters what I think though. As stated a few times already the rules are quite clear.