Algonquin Adventures / i really do not know why i bother,, i contacted ont. out door re-fees

**Posted by trippythings** 2/08/2022 11:32 am

Swift Fifteen wrote:
What is the fine associated with an overstay in the Park? Just curious

Source: https://www.ontarioparks.com/park/algonquin/rules

**Posted by Jdbonney** 2/08/2022 12:09 pm

Always remember job #1 for every politician. Re-election.

**Posted by Swift Fifteen** 2/10/2022 10:41 am

$75? That's it? When (not IF) the daily back country permits increase to $46+/day, the fine is less than two days permit. Kinda makes you wonder if the fine may be worth it, especially if you're staying for 10 days and only pay for 3..lol. Of course, I certainly wouldn't promote breaking any APP rules...not publicly at least ;-)

**Posted by Clarkey71** 2/12/2022 10:17 am

I've read on this forum and a couple other forums that some people might opt out for the fine option (If they get caught) and stay a couple extra nights. But when you look at the fine itself it says 'Minimum Fine' That $75 isn't a set price. It might be quite a bit more.

**Posted by Swift Fifteen** 2/12/2022 11:17 am

Clarkey71 wrote:
I've read on this forum and a couple other forums that some people might opt out for the fine option (If they get caught) and stay a couple extra nights. But when you look at the fine itself it says 'Minimum Fine' That $75 isn't a set price. It might be quite a bit more.

True enough, could be $75 per day..ouch!

**Posted by Jdbonney** 2/12/2022 11:22 am

If I’m not mistaken you can be issued a summons to show up to court. Would only be for a serious offence or for repeat offenders. Fine may end up being the same but could cost you time off work to attend court as well as the drive from wherever you live to the court which could be north bay or Ottawa depending where you get caught.

**Posted by MartinG** 2/12/2022 1:18 pm

Who is gonna pay $46 a night as a solo tripper? That number just sounds absurd. Then again $6000 for a solo canoe sounds absurd too, but that's what Swift is charging these days. I guess the same suckers who pay that for a solo canoe probably don't care if it costs $100 for their weekend adventures.

**Posted by swedish pimple** 2/12/2022 1:35 pm

this is not the place to discuss options,,,. loose lips sink ships,,, big brother is watching,,, i.m.h.o.

**Posted by trippythings** 2/12/2022 5:45 pm

If they increase the price I'm sure I'll continue to follow the rules and pay the new price, but from a monetary perspective I wouldn't feel guilty if I were to camp without a permit, then make a donation of $12/night to the park. However, I would definitely feel guilty about camping without a permit for the principle that I could be taking someone else's campsite.

MartinG wrote:
Who is gonna pay $46 a night as a solo tripper? That number just sounds absurd. Then again $6000 for a solo canoe sounds absurd too, but that's what Swift is charging these days. I guess the same suckers who pay that for a solo canoe probably don't care if it costs $100 for their weekend adventures.

$6,000 is on the upper end of their offerings if you're juicing it up with the Carbon Tech Package and some optional add-ons, it's not a realistic example to say "that's what Swift is charging these days". The base prices are similar to solo options from Nova Craft, Wenona, or H2O, for example. Regardless I don't think anyone is a 'sucker' if they're comfortable paying that amount for a new lightweight canoe. Of course you can get something cheaper from a lesser known brand, or second-hand, or if you're ok with the boat being a bit heavier... but not everyone wants that.

**Posted by MartinG** 2/12/2022 6:00 pm

trippythings wrote:
$6,000 is on the upper end of their offerings if you're juicing it up with the Carbon Tech Package and some optional add-ons, it's not a realistic example to say "that's what Swift is charging these days". The base prices are similar to solo options from Nova Craft, Wenona, or H2O, for example. Regardless I don't think anyone is a 'sucker' if they're comfortable paying that amount for a new lightweight canoe. Of course you can get something cheaper from a lesser known brand, or second-hand, or if you're ok with the boat being a bit heavier... but not everyone wants that.

This is the upper end of Swift's offerings. There's a sucker born every minute!

**Posted by trippythings** 2/12/2022 6:18 pm

MartinG wrote:
trippythings wrote:
$6,000 is on the upper end of their offerings if you're juicing it up with the Carbon Tech Package and some optional add-ons, it's not a realistic example to say "that's what Swift is charging these days". The base prices are similar to solo options from Nova Craft, Wenona, or H2O, for example. Regardless I don't think anyone is a 'sucker' if they're comfortable paying that amount for a new lightweight canoe. Of course you can get something cheaper from a lesser known brand, or second-hand, or if you're ok with the boat being a bit heavier... but not everyone wants that.

This is the upper end of Swift's offerings. There's a sucker born every minute!

Upper end and max are two different things You can share a screenshot of a max loaded option (though you forgot a couple optional add-ons), which is an obvious outlier, but I think everyone knows that's not representative of what most people are buying, which can be clearly seen in all their Instagram posts and YouTube videos.

I get the feeling that you're just trolling though so I'm going to stop responding after this.

**Posted by Jdbonney** 2/12/2022 8:43 pm

That canoe wholesale is probably still close to $5000.

**Posted by scoutergriz** 2/13/2022 6:41 am

Jdbonney wrote:
That canoe wholesale is probably still close to $5000.

and realistically they might sell 1 or 2 annually in that price range... I suspect the average price paid is closer to $1000- many people paddle beaters or buy used canoes, I know I did, I bought one brand new one in 60 years and it was an anniversary present for both my wife and I, Even then it was only $2200.
but what does the price of your canoe have to do with anything? If I kept that canoe for 20 years, that's a total investment of $110 annually, less than 3 days fees....

**Posted by Swift Fifteen** 2/13/2022 3:23 pm

I think I paid $4,700 for my 15ft Kee pack boat in the carbon/innegra layup with most of the extras that Mawhty listed above. I picked it up from Bob in South River. Cool guy with some interesting APP history under his belt. If you bring him a coffee and don't act like a citiot he may introduce you to some large brookies in the Park.

**Posted by EddyTurn** 2/13/2022 7:25 pm

Swift is up a lot. The Keewaydin I priced at $3,600 (US) 5 years ago costs $4,600 today. Soon enough one will need to rob a bank to paddle Keewaydin in Temagami.

**Posted by MartinG** 2/13/2022 9:06 pm

Switching away from the price gouging by Swift Canoes, back to the original topic, I would be very hard pressed to pay $46 for a solo interior permit.

My initial reaction is to go in without a permit or extend my stay to justify the outrageous prices. Of course, after taking a breath, I would more likely just mutter something about the government and go someplace else.

Still the whole idea of being so ripped off by Ontario Parks makes me consider those $75-125 fines. Could it be worth risking it? Pretty slim chance of getting caught. In hundreds of nights in the interior, I have never had my permit checked. I have had my fishing license checked. I've been checked for mandatory equipment in my boat. But no one has ever asked to see a campsite permit.

But the fine could be much more than $75-100. Coincidentally, this crossed my feed today. 6 people charged thousands of dollars for camping without a permit in the WCT.

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/six-friends-fined-thousands-of-dollars-for-illegally-camping-on-west-coast-trail-5058755

http://www.youtube.com/user/kayakcamper · **Posted by Uppa** 2/14/2022 7:14 am

Even though the chances of getting caught are slim, I'm in Algonquin to relax, not stress about getting caught. I'll probably have to say goodbye to Algonquin (for the most part) when this goes into effect and plan longer trips to farther away, less absurdly priced locations. La Verendrye in Quebec maybe?