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For over fifty years the Park has held Public Wolf howls attracting thousands of visitors to have the opportunity to get a chance to hear wild wolves. During the process Park Wardens would temporarily (for about 15-20 minutes) shut down Highway 60 to through traffic so there would be no noise for the howl. This year, in their infinite wisdom, the Ministry of Transportation has said that Park Wardens can't close down the highway because they don't have the authority to do so, even though, within a provincial park Wardens have the same authority as an OPP officer and besides the Parks and Conservation Reserves Act, can enforce the Fish & Wildlife Act, Liquor License Act and Highway Traffic Act if need be. Because the Wardens can no longer shut down the highway for wolf howls the Park has to hire two OPP officers to do this. The OPP needs to be given 24 hours notice if they will not be needed in the event there will be no howl. This can't be done as Park staff don't know if there will be a howl until the early morning hours of the day of a howl. So if there is a howl or not the Park is still having to pay for the OPP. This year the cost for this was in the neighbourhood of $15000 and there were no howls. So there was a pile of money that was basically thrown away. I wonder if this could be the beginning of the end of the Public Wolf Howl in Algonquin all thanks to someone on their high horse at the MTO.
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That seems crazy to me. I guess the OPP would have jurisdiction over the highway and perhaps they don't want to assume the liability if someone were to get hit, etc. There has to be a better way though, I can't see thte Park swallowing that kind of bill for too long.
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This is really unfortunate. Sometimes common sense just isn't very common. Hopefully something can be worked out over the winter or I could see this great park attraction disappearing.
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Another example that we exist to serve our automobiles. Surely you can shut down a highway for twenty minutes...
Last edited by LaLoche (9/07/2015 8:05 pm)
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Rather than closing down the highway and spending thousands of dollars... hiring several buses and driving visitors to where there are wolves might be a cheaper option. Plenty of roads in APP... if wolves happen to be in an area accessible by logging roads, the setting won't be as attractive as the scenic highway but at night surroundings will be less visible and closing down a logging road should create fewer problems.
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frozen; the cost for that would be prohibitive. Last call I was at (several years ago) had almost 2000 participants, that would take 40 busses minimum at the average of about $350/hr (350x 2/12- 3hrs) for a total of about $1050 per hour per bus, or over $40,000 for every wolf howl plus taxes and fuel charges.
Buckshot; don't believe what you hear on trip advisor, I've heard wolves in the Mew Lake airfield every fall and winter for several years. the problem for the last two years has been one of safety, the packs weren't in suitable locations that could safely handle the amount of people that show up for these events (poor to no parking, long walks in the dark down trails, etc.
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SG, the bus cost may be too high for a wolf howl, OTOH for comparison, the cost of a 12-hour bus tour to Niagara Falls from Toronto is about $35 per passenger... in those luxurious buses that are advertised. In APP something more basic might be had for less and only two hours so costs per passenger should be lower. And some of the park's funding could be put towards this to lower passenger costs further.
If the wolf howls are to be cancelled, this could be an alternative, although more of a production than simply parking your car at the side of the highway. But if there are no wolves to be heard howling at the highway and the highway needs to be closed... well, maybe there are better options.
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The whole issue seems kind of silly to me. I would understand far better if the MTO were simply saying "it's our highway and we don't agree to it being closed for a public wolf howl". But they're not -- based on what Kaufmanleopold says, they're saying "we agree to the highway being closed for ths event, but physically the closure has to be carried out by an agency (OPP) of one of our fellow ministries (MCSCS), not the actual proponent of the event, an agency (Ontario Parks) of another of our fellow ministries (MNRF)". Even though Ontario Parks wardens are LEOs and different law enforcement forces do help each other out across jurisdictions where necessary. With the effect that government money is being wastefully passed from one public pocket to another. Frankly if enough of a stink were made about this that it were heard at the political level, the relevant ministers could make the problem go away; they're all on the same team and none of them like controversy.
As for the review on tripadvisor, sounds like a game of broken telephone. My guess is the ranger told the woman about wolves migrating out of the park after deer each winter, or maybe about the long-term decline in the wolf population that can be attributed to the replacement of deer by moose.
I think frozentripper's idea is worth considering. Running a bus or two up a logging road can't be that expensive when you consider that the park/MNR flies planes for lake condition monitoring, fish stocking, etc.
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frozen; I asked a tour bus driver and supervisor I know, and his response was that it would actually be higher because it's charged depot- to- depot, so if the busses come from Huntsville you'd need to tack on 2 hours travel time.
$35/personx 55 (normal highway coach) is just short of $2000/ day, every day the bus runs, but the cheapest fare I can find is $84, which would be $4620 on a regularly serviced route with a dedicated bus, not a private charter, which is what this would be
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I have no interest in this event personally as I would never choose to an event in the Park that is this crowded. However, I do understand that this is a way to draw people to the Park so challenges to running it are concerning.
I do see both sides of this. I can understand the rationale of using OPP officers. I can also understand the costs. Schools have to hire OPP officers when they run dances. I understand the thinking to be that it should be the school not the OPP that eats the cost. I agree with others who say the Ministries involved need to work together on this to resolve the issues.
As for buses, I suspect it would be school buses. Having booked buses for 1 hr to 1 day trips, I would suggest the buses would not need to cost 1000 plus per bus.
Last edited by ChristineCanoes (9/09/2015 7:01 am)
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There was at least one (1) Wolf Howl in 2014. The Park Naturalists were successful calling out to the Wolf Pond pack, near the Rock Lake Road.
The average Wolf Howl is attended by 600 people. At 50 passengers/bus, 12 buses are required for any event. Calculate that.
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I do think if the Park went to busing the whole event would change, but perhaps its something they are considering. I think busing would require preregistration and a fee (just like backcountry camping does), so they might limit numbers to 1000 or 500. What this will probably come down to eventually is poltical will. Ultimately, is this a critical part of Algonquin's mandate?
Last edited by ChristineCanoes (9/09/2015 7:01 am)
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ScouterG, here is an all-day bus tour, about 12 hours, Toronto to Niagara, running about $35... so if they can do it...
A wolf howl cost per passenger should be less for reasons written above... besides, user-pay operations seem to be adopted more and more these days, so maybe wolf howl visitors wouldn't object too much if the price could be kept low (although, this would most likely reduce the numbers participating).
Again, only an alternate option, if wolf howls might be cancelled. I imagine kids would love a night bus ride to some remote spot to hear wolves so maybe the user fees would be acceptable.
PS.... this user fee policy statement from Ontario Parks suggests that user fees for a wolf howl wouldn't be out of line with the way parks are managed now.
"Our parks system is largely funded through user fees, which – along with other park revenues – are deposited in an account dedicated solely for the use of Ontario Parks. The money that you pay for services and merchandise in provincial parks, stays in parks."
Last edited by frozentripper (9/09/2015 8:57 am)
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frozen- Apples and oranges, you're talking about 200km round trip, in a very densely populated area with lots of competition, major expressways, and lots of attractions in close proximity , during daylight hours
algonquin is over 250km one way, on 4 lane roads until you get to Huntsville (not 6 or 8) then you're on a two lane twisting secondary highway for at least another hour and a half (visitor centre) then after a couple of hours, you'd need to make the same trip all over again, but in the dark.
Christine; having booked several buses, and knowing several people in the industry, I'd think you'd be hard pressed to get any reasonable amount of drivers for what would essentially be an overnight excursion (say 8pm to midnight or 2am depending on location, depot to depot) It would cut into their daytime hours too much, they would need to stop at noon the day before and not start until 10 am the next day to keep their hours straight, so the driver would lose 2 days of charters for a half day's pay
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...or you just rent a school bus over the summer holidays and get some park staffer to get a B license.
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Scoutergirl, I'm not sure what the industry is like in your neck of the woods but I can only speak to my personal experience in Renfrew County. I've got quotes/rented busses/worked with bus drivers for probably 4 or 5 of our County's bus companies.
In my experience, school bus drivers typically do not work in the summer in Renfrew County unless they work driving for someone like Wilderness Tours. So when they are offered a gig they aren't concerned about their hours the day before or the day after. If they take the wolf howl, they are doing it because it isn't their normal routine, it's some money they wouldn't normally get and they figure they'll get to meet some cool people. Moreover, there are always less summer contracts than there are drivers who want this work so I really don't see a company having trouble getting drivers for this type of event. Even during the school year, drivers want these contracts. Say a school is taking kids from Barry's Bay to Southern Ontario. The bus driver doesn't drive his normal route Friday (when the kids are super hyper) because he is picking kids (with probably 2 supervisors who look after their behaviour) up at noon. He or she then gets work Friday and Saturday, takes Sunday off. Typically they make more than they do driving their regular route.
Bus companies on the east side of the park are itching to get their buses on the road in the summer. The way they look at it, even if they are making a minimal amount, it is more than they are making sitting in the yard. I am pretty sure that you could get a bus company in Renfrew County to take this contract. In fact, I'm sure at least 3 or 4 would bid for it.
I'm also unsure why there is an assumption the buses would come from Huntsville. According to the info about the wolf howls, the starting point is 76.2 km from Barry's Bay.
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