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I saw today that Ontario Parks has moved Killarney to a site specific reservation system for all backcountry permits. I really hope this is just something they’re doing for Killarney, but I wonder if we’ll see it rolled out to Algonquin at some point in the next couple of years. I’d be bummed if that were the case. I like the flexibility of the current system.
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Yeah got a notice in my inbox this morning as well. Interesting in the context of the 'ghost site' and 'campsite pirates' threads that have been on the board lately, maybe this will help. This may also address someone booking up a lake just so they can get one site in particular and may help on the campsite care less trash front. A couple of trips this summer I found the remains of a previous camper's cooler contents in the thunderbox which is a drag. Pretty optimistic of me yes but as use goes up I only see skills and etiquette going down which can ruin the fun of being in the backcountry (at least within a portage or two of an access point).
On the other hand, I get that this means you're one step closer to car camping which is not likely why anyone goes to the backcountry. Given the traffic in Killarney and the size difference to Algonquin, it seems less likely this will come to APP at least in all lakes/zones. It would be tougher to police and possibly less warranted especially in the middle of the park.
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i am against this policy change,, i do not want my trip micro managed,,
if and when the flat rate interior camp permit comes into effect in algonquin, and having to book a specific interior site as well,, should stop people from just going to beat the rate increase, because the fine is cheaper?? you can trip but have no clue where to set up camp on each lake,, crappy weather could also hold trippers tight to a site that they have no permit for.
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Hey 'SP'. If they enact specific backcountry campsite reservations and flat rates in Algonquin, that would make the PCI all the more relevant, specially for larger groups.
Maybe they could tier the campsite rates according to potential tent capacities .. large group campsites $$$, intermediate size campsite $$, and smaller campsites $.
That would be fairer for solos and small groups. And it would help direct campers to size-appropriate campsites.
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They definitely need to provide more information about sites to go to a site specific booking, including how many tent sites there are. However I doubt it will work out any fairer for solos or small groups because the small sites are usually bad sites too.
I'm still on the fence with regards to per site booking. Taking a group of novices to a place that I am already familiar with, then knowing that we have a decent site available is a good thing. On the other hand heading to a new area where I'm not familiar with sites I need more flexibility on the distance travelled each day and I really don't want to get stuck with a bad site that looked good in pictures that were taken at a completely different time of year and water level.
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I just got an email from Ontario Parks announcing the same change for Algonquin Hiking camp sites now too.
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand my wife will love knowing we can book a favourite site ahead of time and not have to race to get to a specific site. On the other hand I feel the concern about having a trip micro managed. I like having the variability in a trip especially if I'm staying on a large lake with lots of sites.
I won't be surprised when they notify us about this change to APP canoe sites.
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I am super disappointed with this. This is all about monetizing the park system. It completely undermines the concept of backcountry.
I will probably stop going to Algonquin if they implement this.
They did specifically say they aren’t applying this to canoe sites in Algonquin. If they do, I am pretty sure I’ll stop supporting the park system. It’s an aberration IMHO.
Last edited by ChristineCanoes (11/17/2021 6:26 pm)
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ChristineCanoes wrote:
I am super disappointed with this. This is all about monetizing the park system. It completely undermines the concept of backcountry.
I will probably stop going to Algonquin if they implement this.
They did specifically say they aren’t applying this to canoe sites in Algonquin. If they do, I am pretty sure I’ll stop supporting the park system. It’s an aberration IMHO.
Now you're feeling the disdain for changes that I was feeling in the fees thread - all of it is demoralizing.
I feel like the powers that be are trying their hardest to **** up the whole concept of the backcountry - and they're doing a fantastic job of it.
I'm moving to Huntsville in January, at first I thought 'oh great, I'll be so close to the park'. Now all I'm thinking is 'well, at least the drive to wabakimi will be shorter'.
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I think I see this one differently because I think all that matters to politicians is what the GTA/Southern Ontario thinks because that is where the bulk of votes are. The majority of the GTA canoe camps in groups of 4 or less (if they aren’t commercial) so if people actually write to government I do think they will backtrack on that. The majority of the GTA / Southern Ontario also does primarily weekend trips so the idea of spending months online researching sites and booking it like a hotel and then bragging on YouTube about the site they got actually probably appeals to most of the middle class urban boating class. This is disappointing to me because not only is it not how I trip. I think it undermines the basic values of backcountry camping 🤷🏻♀️.
I think I’m going to go to parks for weekend trips but start looking to other places/ provinces with more open booking options for longer trips if they go ahead with this in the parks I canoe in the most 🤷🏻♀️
Last edited by ChristineCanoes (11/17/2021 8:18 pm)
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I don't like sharing my opinions on this kind of thing because, while I do have a dog in the fight so to speak (me), it is not my place as the citizen of a different country to enter the debate.
So, I am not sharing an opinion really, but pointing out a practical concern. During a bad weather day when some parties are windbound and others aren't, this could create some pretty unpleasant interactions when somebody arrives at their reserved campsite and finds a party still occupying who was not comfortable traveling in the conditions.
That can happen today obviously, but if it happens when somebody has the hotel keys to site number 6 in their reservation.....that's different than the same thing happening when reservations are not site specific. The difference between somebody being located on a campsite therefore it is unavailable vs somebody is occupying MY reserved campsite....just a thought.
Last edited by MooseWhizzer Dave (11/17/2021 10:10 pm)
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I don't like sharing my opinions on this kind of thing because, while I do have a dog in the fight so to speak (me), it is not my place as the citizen of a different country to enter the debate.
So, I am not sharing an opinion really, but pointing out a practical concern. During a bad weather day when some parties are windbound and others aren't, this could create some pretty unpleasant interactions when somebody arrives at their reserved campsite and finds a party still occupying who was not comfortable traveling in the conditions.
That can happen today obviously, but if it happens when somebody has the hotel keys to site number 6 in their reservation.....that's different than the same thing happening when reservations are not site specific. The difference between somebody being located on a campsite therefore it is unavailable vs somebody is occupying MY reserved campsite....just a thought.
Excellent points Dave. On this vein, we were on a trip last year where we portaged in to Carl Wilson lake and found ourselves hit by a nasty headwind. We paddled past the first available (vacant) site, but the wind got crazier and we were now fighting white capped waves. We decided to head back to the first site and were relieved to arrive there. Had we been booked at another site on the lake, we may have tried to push forward, which would have been exhausting and somewhat dangerous.
From a backpacking perspective, it can make a bit more sense but I feel the same way as pizzabones and have mixed feelings about it. I noticed last year that they had started labelling site numbers on some lakes on the WUT so I had a feeling that this was going to be rolled out in 2022. I suspect the plan is to expand the number of bookings as well - for example, Rainbow Lake has 3 sites but only one reservation has been allowed until now. I wouldn't be overly keen on seeing this happen, but I've got a bad feeling it will.
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I hate to even write this but the following will occur at some point.
Canoeist flips in unsafe conditions during May water temps either a) trying to get to the site they booked when they should have stopped as hiker72 states. Or B) leaving a site in unsafe conditions because someone has that site booked and they don’t feel they can stay.
Someone is going to get hurt or worse. Big investigation will be triggered and this policy will be revisited.
I hate when policy is set by people who have clearly never used the service themselves.
Last edited by ShawnD (11/18/2021 10:22 am)
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Hey 'SP'. If they enact specific backcountry campsite reservations and flat rates in Algonquin, that would make the PCI all the more relevant, specially for larger groups.
PCI will be more relevant but you will likely have to overhaul the campsite numbers. I was just looking at KPP and for some reason Parks has renumbered everything, they have a grid noting old number and new number. Going to be a lot of confusion and i really don't understand the need for this change. Parks already had what they call 'old numbers' should have just left them.
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PCI will be more relevant but you will likely have to overhaul the campsite numbers. I was just looking at KPP and for some reason Parks has renumbered everything, they have a grid noting old number and new number. Going to be a lot of confusion and i really don't understand the need for this change. Parks already had what they call 'old numbers' should have just left them.
The PCI numbering system is already being shared by other websites. I won't be renumbering any. I'll simply amend the digits to include any new system # and the existing PCI # .. for example; "So-and-so Lake Campsite AP-25 / PCI-10". It's ironic that well before the PCI was started, the ABR exec. was very close to getting the park to make public their campsite maintenance numbering system, so campers could better ID campsites with problems. Unfortunately, someone in management was concerned that would lead to some kind of "confusion".
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Regarding reservations of the Backcountry Hike-in campsites, here's a "copy/paste" of a Facebook post from Algonquin Provincial Park ..
Algonquin Provincial Park
November 17
Our backpacking campers have let us know that having the ability to select and reserve specific campsites before they set out on the trails is important to them.
Based on this feedback, we are updating our reservation system so campers can make site-specific reservations at campsites along our three backpacking trails: Eastern Pines, Western Uplands, and Highland.
This change becomes effective December 13, 2021 when we will begin taking site-specific reservations up to 5 months in advance for next season, which opens May 13, 2022
Updated maps and photos will soon be on our reservations website to help you plan and select campsites for your next trip
As always, reservations can be made online at or by phone at 1-888-668-7275
No changes will be made to the reservation system for Algonquin Provincial Park’s paddling backcountry sites at this time
We hope these changes improve your upcoming backpacking trips to Algonquin Provincial Park!
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