You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

4/14/2020 4:30 pm  #69


Re: To paddle....or not.

da bears will get no picnic baskets,,, da ravens and fox get less road kill meals, no fries for the sea gulls, these animals will be piss-trated like us people,, then there are the forest humanoids to deal with,,,
   tripping after this travel ban seems risky,,

Last edited by swedish pimple (4/14/2020 4:33 pm)

 

4/14/2020 4:52 pm  #70


Re: To paddle....or not.

JoeScmoe wrote:

So Ford extends the state of emergency another 28 days, but our fearless leader in Ottawa just bolted to his cottage.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeaus-cottage-visit-mocks-us-and-the-rules-he-sets

https://i.ibb.co/bPbznJx/Screenshot-20200413-192829-Chrome.jpg

new home images free

I'm guessing they won't take any bookings in the park until after Ford officially lifts the emergency order... which at this point is mid May. Then once it's lifted, how quickly could they ramp up and get things going and start bookings?

Not fond of Trudeau and didn't vote for him. With that being said, I support his travel to stay with his wife and kids. They have been separated for weeks.
 

 

4/14/2020 6:59 pm  #71


Re: To paddle....or not.

Ford is being politically astute.   Trying to relax the current social distancing regulations and starting to restart the economy will raise a hue and cry from those who think we must maintain the current state until a vaccine is available in a year, or a year and a half or ???  Ford is leaving it to the Federal government to take the heat on that decision.  One thing I've noticed on Facebook is that the people who are most vocal about maintaining the current lockdown tend to be retired and collecting a fully indexed public sector defined benefit pension -- in other words the recession we are in now won't impact them in any way.  My concern is the impact this is having on younger generations, for example we have a three year old grandchild with autism who hasn't received any therapy since the lockdown started.

 

4/14/2020 9:41 pm  #72


Re: To paddle....or not.

yellowcanoe wrote:

...One thing I've noticed on Facebook is that the people who are most vocal about maintaining the current lockdown tend to be retired and collecting a fully indexed public sector defined benefit pension -- in other words the recession we are in now won't impact them in any way...

I'm <30 years old and work an office job in the hospitality industry (the industry hit hardest right now). We need to continue with the current lock down. This is a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic and we're in the middle of its first wave. It's not even fearmongering at this point, if we open up the economy right now, things will get very bad very quickly. We're watching it happen in other countries and Canada is no special exception to the virus.

If I end up losing my job but we save thousands of lives in the process, it will have been worth it. The economy will recover eventually. Losing family and loved ones is permanent.

p.s. The reason you see that demographic vocalizing their opinions on Facebook is simply because that's the demographic that tends to vocalize their opinions on facebook.


Trip Reports & Campsite Pictures
www.algonquinbeyond.com
 

4/14/2020 10:03 pm  #73


Re: To paddle....or not.

yellowcanoe wrote:

Ford is being politically astute.   Trying to relax the current social distancing regulations and starting to restart the economy will raise a hue and cry from those who think we must maintain the current state until a vaccine is available in a year, or a year and a half or ???  Ford is leaving it to the Federal government to take the heat on that decision.  One thing I've noticed on Facebook is that the people who are most vocal about maintaining the current lockdown tend to be retired and collecting a fully indexed public sector defined benefit pension -- in other words the recession we are in now won't impact them in any way.  My concern is the impact this is having on younger generations, for example we have a three year old grandchild with autism who hasn't received any therapy since the lockdown started.

I am 33 and run a beverage business that supplies gas, grocery, convenience, restaurants etc.  While we are still able to operate during these times, my partners and I are facing some serious challenges as small business owners and are concerned for the future of our company.  That being said, I fully support any and all measures being taken to curb the spread of this virus.  If that eventually means us shutting down our production lines then so be it. 
I have a 10 month old at home who won’t be starting daycare anymore, as my wife is returning to work soon (online), and that is going to be a huge struggle.  I fully promote extending the social distancing and lockdown measures until it’s proven safe to start going back to normal life.

Last edited by TripperMike (4/14/2020 10:11 pm)

 

4/15/2020 8:56 am  #74


Re: To paddle....or not.

trippythings wrote:

If I end up losing my job but we save thousands of lives in the process, it will have been worth it. The economy will recover eventually. Losing family and loved ones is permanent.

Countries such as Taiwan demonstrate that having a functional economy and saving lives are not mutually exclusive goals.  Despite keeping schools and businesses open, Taiwan has only recorded six deaths from the virus so far.  Of course it greatly helped that Taiwan began to plan for a pandemic right after the SARS crisis so when Covid-19 appeared they knew exactly what to do and had the necessary equipment and supplies.

Given that our government chose not to preplan in any way for a future pandemic, a lockdown was the only immediate option we had to control the infection rate.   However with each passing day there is less and less of an excuse for not deploying measures that would enable us to start reopening the economy while continuing to control the infection rate.  For example there is still no mandate for wearing masks even though the science shows that even simple home made masks are more effective than telling people to stay 2m apart.   

I would give governments credit for moving quickly to establish a lockdown but it's time for a new game plan.
 

 

4/15/2020 9:07 am  #75


Re: To paddle....or not.

This is getting pretty far away from the original post, but it seems that this thread has turned into the Covid-19 thread, so I thought I’d post this here. Feel free to move it if it’s not relevant. It’s a presentation by a rheumatologist in Arva Ontario on when we might expect the lockdown restrictions to end. I found it very interesting and it seems well informed.

https://rheuminfo.com/blog/covid-19-daily-update-when-will-the-lockdown-end/

 

4/15/2020 9:18 am  #76


Re: To paddle....or not.

yellowcanoe wrote:

trippythings wrote:

If I end up losing my job but we save thousands of lives in the process, it will have been worth it. The economy will recover eventually. Losing family and loved ones is permanent.

Countries such as Taiwan demonstrate that having a functional economy and saving lives are not mutually exclusive goals.  Despite keeping schools and businesses open, Taiwan has only recorded six deaths from the virus so far.  Of course it greatly helped that Taiwan began to plan for a pandemic right after the SARS crisis so when Covid-19 appeared they knew exactly what to do and had the necessary equipment and supplies.

Given that our government chose not to preplan in any way for a future pandemic, a lockdown was the only immediate option we had to control the infection rate.   However with each passing day there is less and less of an excuse for not deploying measures that would enable us to start reopening the economy while continuing to control the infection rate.  For example there is still no mandate for wearing masks even though the science shows that even simple home made masks are more effective than telling people to stay 2m apart.   

I would give governments credit for moving quickly to establish a lockdown but it's time for a new game plan.
 

I completely agree with everything you said. Almost every country screwed up in planning for this, with Taiwan being one of the few exceptions. But it's obviously too late now to follow their lead.

And I agree about the masks as well, but the issue is availability... medical masks need to be reserved for front-line providers, but homemade masks are great for the general public... while there's no mandate like you said, they have started recommending that people wear them. Issue is still availability though, not everyone knows how to make them or has a way of buying them.

My last message was just stating my opinion that as of now, a continued lockdown is needed. But like you said, we need a new plan so that this lockdown doesn't last for several more months. How are we going to get masks to the general public? Which businesses will re open first and what safety precautions will be in place? How can we ramp up testing and contact tracing? When will antibody tests become available? The sooner the governments starts answering those questions, the sooner we can talk about opening up the economy again... and going camping

edit: it's weird to think that face masks and a digital thermometer might be part of my packing list if the parks open again this year!

Last edited by trippythings (4/15/2020 9:19 am)


Trip Reports & Campsite Pictures
www.algonquinbeyond.com
 

4/15/2020 9:39 am  #77


Re: To paddle....or not.

AlgonquinLakes wrote:

This is getting pretty far away from the original post, but it seems that this thread has turned into the Covid-19 thread, so I thought I’d post this here. Feel free to move it if it’s not relevant. It’s a presentation by a rheumatologist in Arva Ontario on when we might expect the lockdown restrictions to end. I found it very interesting and it seems well informed.

https://rheuminfo.com/blog/covid-19-daily-update-when-will-the-lockdown-end/

This is pretty cool data.  Thanks Drew. 

And yes this thread got way offside.  My thoughts; don't go paddling unless it's on your own property or you have waterfront access, that way we can all go paddling sooner than later. 

 

4/15/2020 9:41 am  #78


Re: To paddle....or not.

If the parks do open, will anyone be tempted to limit their travel distance in case they get sick somewhere in the backcountry?

 

4/15/2020 9:59 am  #79


Re: To paddle....or not.

JoeScmoe wrote:

If the parks do open, will anyone be tempted to limit their travel distance in case they get sick somewhere in the backcountry?

I did actually think about that the other day. I think for this season at least, I would avoid parts of the park that would delay an evacuation if needed (stick to large open lakes that air transport can easily access) and maybe not do extended trips. Especially since I mostly travel solo. And my InReach would be at my side 24/7 like usual.

Realistically, if you're travelling solo and start to show symptoms of fever and dry cough, you're not getting yourself out of the deep backcountry in any safe way. An evac would most likely be needed, so planning a trip that makes an evac as easy as possible.

Obviously Plan A = don't get sick or call in an evac https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

Last edited by trippythings (4/15/2020 10:01 am)


Trip Reports & Campsite Pictures
www.algonquinbeyond.com
 

4/15/2020 10:52 am  #80


Re: To paddle....or not.

JoeScmoe wrote:

If the parks do open, will anyone be tempted to limit their travel distance in case they get sick somewhere in the backcountry?

This has been on my mind for the last little while as well. It's a tough call, but I've been thinking along the same lines as Trippy. That being said, I was really looking forward to a longer trip this year after missing most of last summer, so I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that things die down enough by late August or so that doing a longer interior trip will seem like less of a worry.  Gah. This sucks.

 

4/15/2020 10:56 am  #81


Re: To paddle....or not.

Jdbonney wrote:

Feel free to disagree, but make your own post. This is the support post for those of us sticking to the quarantine.

I do find it interesting when one non-mod person tries to dictate what can and cannot be posted in a thread.

In discussing the original article, I can see why the writer has the opinions they do but I don't agree with them.  You may feel guilty that other people don't have the opportunity but that doesn't mean you shouldn't. If that logic holds, I should stop working because others have lost their income.

There is nothing in current regulations saying you can't spend time outside alone or with people you live with so if someone wants to paddle in a nearby location, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I don't have the opportunity but I don't hold it against them.

I also don't think that the risk involved with someone doing their usual local paddle puts any significant strain on either first responders or the medical system.

If someone was planning to sneak into Algonquin or another closed location it would be a different matter.

 

4/15/2020 11:02 am  #82


Re: To paddle....or not.

keg wrote:

There is nothing in current regulations saying you can't spend time outside alone or with people you live with so if someone wants to paddle in a nearby location, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't have the opportunity but I don't hold it against them.

This is an important point in my opinion. Someone driving 5-10 minutes to paddle on crown land for the day is very different from me, who lives downtown Toronto, driving 3.5 hours, getting gas, making an extra grocery/LCBO trip, etc. to get at the same lake.

For certain rural people a paddle should be treated the same as me going for a walk around my block.
 

Last edited by John McClane (4/15/2020 11:03 am)

 

4/15/2020 11:05 am  #83


Re: To paddle....or not.

trippythings wrote:

An alternate way of looking at things would be to ask yourself "would this be ok to do if everyone was doing it?". For example, if you went on a day paddle, ...

 
We could extend this to anything.  Outside of these current circumstances would it be okay for everyone to camp on crown land? Okay if everyone drove to work? Okay if everyone wanted to ride the same bike path? Okay if everyone bought a canoe?

The reality is everyone won't.  The only people who would go paddle are people who have access to a boat and that automatically limits the number.

I do get your point but the level of hypothetical speculation weakens the argument.

 

4/15/2020 11:19 am  #84


Re: To paddle....or not.

A paddle, no matter where, is inherently more risky than a walk around the block.

There is a lot of what I would see as faulty logic flowing from this thread.

You don’t need to be a moderator on here to start a new thread. One of the rules on this forum is the avoidance of arguments and debate. By asking someone to start a new thread I’m actually asking that we adhere to the forum rules. The mods do their best but don’t want to jump in at every little thing.

     Thread Starter
 

4/15/2020 1:07 pm  #85


Re: To paddle....or not.

Jdbonney wrote:

A paddle, no matter where, is inherently more risky than a walk around the block.

There is a lot of what I would see as faulty logic flowing from this thread.

In what sense does the hypothetical paddle I described create more risk of community spread than a walk around the block? 

Are you suggesting that rural and urban people should be limited to precisely the same recreation activities? 

My point was just that peoples' geographic circumstances contribute to what is reasonable.
 

 

Board footera

LNT Canada is a national non-profit organization dedicated to promoting responsible outdoor recreation through education, research and partnerships.