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3/06/2020 5:50 pm  #52


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

huffington post has a article about the aberta provincial gobermint selling off dozens of provincial parks to save cash,, i believe that ontario is deeper in debt than aberta,, another pet project between provinces,,
  sorry i can not get the link to work , great read with lots of feed back from pizzed of people

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/alberta-parks-jason-kenney-cuts_ca_5e603be6c5b6bd126b7552d1
Edit by Barry: added link.

Last edited by swedish pimple (3/06/2020 5:59 pm)

 

3/06/2020 7:24 pm  #53


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

ShawnD wrote:

....Plus they are going to have to assume learnings in Temagami will hold true in Algonquin and I’m not sure that they would.

I agree. Algonquin is way too unique given it's size and overall accessibility to many. Any data from Killarney, Temagami, etc. could give some indicators, but Algonquin is a completely different ball game.


Trip Reports & Campsite Pictures
www.algonquinbeyond.com
 

3/06/2020 8:34 pm  #54


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

Zemantics ... You mentioned the word troll .
One of my fondest memories of Algonquin Park ... the second time up to Nadine Lake .
Was in the stern as my paddling partner threw out a muddler minnow fly ...trolling with sinking line through a sun lite school of feeder minnows , some twenty feet below in the crystal clear waters .... we were in awe as we watched a beautiful Nadine Lake trout  hit that fly .
 Very grateful that day , shared a mutual feeling of privilege for experiencing such an amazing wonder . We stopped fishing after that ....  enjoyed that trout ... sipped on some whiskey , had a great sleep that night . 
This was in the early nineties , our interior fees were a few dollars less than today .
When the fees for the interior of Algonquin Park change significantly ... maybe then we can revisit this discussion . 


 

Last edited by John Connelly (3/06/2020 8:38 pm)

 

3/06/2020 10:21 pm  #55


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

John Connelly wrote:

...This was in the early nineties , our interior fees were a few dollars less than today ...
 

 I agree that the current backcountry fees are good value for money and I would easily accept a 10% or even 20% increase to help make parks both self funding and help preserve and expand them. What I don’t get is this redistribution of who will pay for what. It seems fair that if one guy goes into the park he should pay X and if he brings 3 buddies then they should pay 4X in total. Why give a discount to larger groups when they could be contributing a fair share to support our parks?

Last edited by solos (3/09/2020 6:18 am)

 

3/07/2020 9:21 am  #56


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

trippythings wrote:

  I agree. Algonquin is way too unique given it's size and overall accessibility to many. Any data from Killarney, Temagami, etc. could give some indicators, but Algonquin is a completely different ball game.

All I can speak to is Algonquin Park's backcountry campsites (not having camped at Killarney or Temagami). 

Having camped in Algonquin's backcountry many times over a quarter century, and having had many more PCI campsite reports cross my desk, I can state with confidence that the backcountry campsites vary from tiny to large, from steep to flat, from rocky to swampy, from sheltered to windblown. There are no standards to the campsites beyond a fire-ring and a thunderbox!

I put a question to those who have camped the backcountry of Killarney or Temagami .. how do the campsites there stack-up to Algonquin's?
 

 

3/07/2020 10:30 am  #57


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

BarryB wrote:

.....A put a question to those who have camped the backcountry of Killarney or Temagami .. how do the campsites there stack-up to Algonquin's?
 

I haven't camped in Temagami but I've been through Killarney numerous times. The average campsite in Killarney is equivalent to a nice campsite in Algonquin. It's normal to have chunks of open rock/quartzite at the shorelines with spacious interiors. The functions of the sites are similar (varying qualities of fire pits, seating, tent pads, etc.), but aesthetically, Killarney sites on average are nicer than Algonquin's.

Someone asked me to see photos of Lake Nellie where I camped last summer so I made a temp page on my website to show them: https://algonquinbeyond.com/blog/temp-page-killarney-photos/

It's only 3 sites on one lake but it's a good representation.

The way I describe it when people ask me, in terms of the park overall and the campsites, is that Killarney feels like a postcard you send to someone while you're travelling, but Algonquin just feels like home.


Trip Reports & Campsite Pictures
www.algonquinbeyond.com
 

3/07/2020 2:15 pm  #58


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

Great post and some excellent comments re increased nightly fees for Temagami and Missassauga Parks..  I have never canoed, camped, or fished in any of these parks and have no plans to do so.  After all, when you have found the best, why try the rest.   To be honest, I have no idea what the difference is between soloists and groups camping in these other Parks.  But it sounds to me that there are more groups than soloists.

Seriously though, most of the posts have to do with canoeing and camping and no mention of fishing.  When it comes to trout fishing in Algonquin Park (as well as other species), the others just aren't even close to what APP has to offer.  As for APP nightly fees, I have been camping in Algonquin for 54 years and I remember when I was 16 my permit was $6/night for a group or single person.  Today, this rate has doubled for a single person, and even less than that for me seeing I am a senior.  As a soloist, I would never pay what these other parks are asking for and seriously doubt many will.  Thus, I can see more canoeists/campers and those wishing to fish visiting Algonquin Park more often.  Hopefully, this will increase Algonquin's revenues and thus make it possible for more wardens to patrol Algonquin.  One can only wish and time will tell.

However, what time has told us is that they we have been given a gift over the years for canoeing, camping and fishing in Algonquin Provincial Park for some very small nightly fees.  For this I am truly thankful for, as well as members of this forum and the others who visit Algonquin Park more often. After all, who wouldn't after canoeing, camping and fishing in THE GREATEST PARK IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD!  And yes I am biased because honestly, I can't believe any other Park could have given me what Algonquin has over these past 54 years as  Algonquin Park is my friend, my second home, my destiny!

Last edited by boknows (3/07/2020 4:17 pm)


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/22/2020 11:44 am  #59


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

 

3/23/2020 10:51 am  #60


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

Having never camped or fished in Killarney PP, what is the quality of fishing like?


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/23/2020 12:13 pm  #61


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

Most of the lakes are dead due to acid rain originating from Sudbury in the pre superstack years ('50s/'60s I believe). Before that, lake trout fishing was reportedly good. It makes the lakes clear and beautiful, but not that interesting (or legal) to fish in. That said, the buffered lakes around the north edge of the park have good bass and pike fishing from my experience. 

I just signed the petition. I suggest everyone do so. Based on the language we've seen, there's no reason to think this wouldn't come to Algonquin, and NOW is the time to push back. I fully support a 10-20% individual user fee hike if increased revenues are required. The current model of pay-per-user, not pay-per-site, it the right model.

 

3/23/2020 12:54 pm  #62


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

So did I re petition and thanks for the fishing info.  Just proves that no Ontario park has what Algonquin has to offer re trout fishing..  For me,  fishing isn't fishing unless I am fishing in Algonquin Park.  However, should Algonquin Park be closed and Killarney open, well?????  At least I can canoe and camp there anyways and leave the fishing rod at home.

Last edited by boknows (3/23/2020 12:57 pm)


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/24/2020 8:09 am  #63


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

Thanks for the links Zemantics! I'm typically hesitant/skeptical to sign petitions, but I signed this one. I also plan to respectably make my concerns known to my local MPP along with a couple of other key decision making MPP's.

The below article may lend some further insight on the initiative:
https://kawarthanow.com/2019/02/07/peterborough-kawartha-mpp-dave-smith-is-now-special-advisor-for-ontario-parks/
Note that Rod Phillips is no longer the Ontario Minister of the Environment, Conservation and Parks  - it is now Jeff Yurek.

Car vs. backcountry camping are two very different animals. As a solo trekker, my impacts are a fraction of larger groups, Everything from trail wear, thunder box use, firewood use, eco disturbance, and camp site impacts. I absolutely don't begrudge larger groups, but can't agree with individuals paying a fraction of what I would need to pay while collectively having a significantly higher impact on the trail and site areas. I understand the benefits of 'streamlining operations', but I don't believe this is a fair contender. 

The CCR discussion (as per Zemantics' link) has some great points, and user frozentripper has some especially useful information (his findings point to this being a pilot that will be rolled out to all parks in 2 years). There are workable solutions that can increase revenue without grossly penalizing solo and couple trekkers. Thinking about our local conservation parks where I live, the entrance fee is per person, with price cap consideration given to families (or perhaps groups). For the record, I am 100% in favour of paying a higher fee to keep up our parks. But I can't fathom paying nearly 4 times the current rate. I suspect that for many of us solo trekking is a way to de-stress and is of great benefit to our mental health. I find it ironic that financial considerations (i.e. stress) will be required to even go. I'm also concerned about the domino effect on other 'freely' run trails and crown land options and believe a critical balance is needed here.
 

Last edited by hiker72 (3/24/2020 9:17 am)

 

3/24/2020 3:19 pm  #64


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

boknows wrote:

  Just proves that no Ontario park has what Algonquin has to offer re trout fishing..

*Lake Superior PP- hold my beer
 

 

3/24/2020 3:49 pm  #65


Re: Flat rate per site coming soon?

EGB wrote:

boknows wrote:

  Just proves that no Ontario park has what Algonquin has to offer re trout fishing..

*Lake Superior PP- hold my beer
 

I have never fished Lake Superior PP so I can only say maybe in regards to trout fishing.

However, when you compare the size of Superior PP (1550 sq. kms) to APP (7653 sq. kms) and Superior PP canoe routes (150 kms) to APP canoe routes (1200 kms) and also Superior PP having 200 back country sites as compared to APP back country sites (too many to count), to me there is still no comparison.

APP rules!  - hold MY beer!


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

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