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2/24/2020 4:07 pm  #35


Re: new reservation system

solos wrote:

SmedleyCo wrote:

... It warned me 6 out of 8 days were too far to travel but I was able to book the lake. 1 out of 8 it refused to book because it was too far. I had to choose a different lake closer to my starting point..

Hi Smedley, Do you mind sharing the route you booked? I'm curious about the distances that the reservation system considers as too far.

I booked this, but things may change a bit yet.

Cauchon
Manitou
Biggar
Gibson
NipR. Kelly Crk Junc. Aft P2715
Robinson
Plumb
Catfish

It would not let me book Plumb to Cedar.

Which makes me wonder, could I have left it at last night on Plumb? If they think you can't make it to Cedar, would they know/allow you to have your last night on Plumb? I imagine it doesn't handle that. You could have your last night on any lake in the park even if it was two days travel to get out realistically.
 

Last edited by SmedleyCo (2/24/2020 4:07 pm)

 

2/24/2020 4:20 pm  #36


Re: new reservation system

It's not allowing you to book Plumb to Cedar because only 1% of the people who travel in APP can complete that distance in one day. Even single portaging it's still gonna be a long arduous day. I certainly admire your enthusiasm, but what am I missing? 

 

2/24/2020 4:31 pm  #37


Re: new reservation system

I think 1% might be a little underestimating. I would think a lot of experienced people could do that day.

     Thread Starter
 

2/24/2020 4:34 pm  #38


Re: new reservation system

A longer day for sure. But only 1%? That seems like a stretch to me. Are we not campers??

Last years spring trip ranged from 16K to 32K for daily travel. But now that I think about it, those were some tough days. 

 

2/24/2020 5:05 pm  #39


Re: new reservation system

IMO - relative to online reservations - from 2 steps forward to 4 steps backwards - relative to calling and talking to staff over the years it has consistently improved- not that this opinion means much in the grand plans of the powers to be

 

2/24/2020 5:21 pm  #40


Re: new reservation system

So in terms of distances. First I’m quite positive Scott could go from Plumb to Cedar in a day.. I know quite a few people who could but these people are not the norm. I do think you want to be conservative though in the reservation system.  You don’t want novices getting into trouble or having to camp off permit because they realize the first day they can’t make the distances they have booked.

That said there are tons of silly restrictions. Plumb to Calumet for example. Less than 4 hrs. Won’t let you do it. I mean you could be there by lunch. Tons of those.

In fairness I’m sure the number of combinations is limitless and they had to create rules. Rules that some times give silly results.

Last edited by ShawnD (2/24/2020 5:22 pm)


We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it.
 - George Washington Sears
 

2/24/2020 5:30 pm  #41


Re: new reservation system

Peek wrote:

The new online reservation is a real shit-show, no doubt about it.

But to be fair, we've only been able to make online reservations for a few seasons now (I think since 2015 or 16 IIRC) so it's basically back to the 'old usual' of calling in to make your reservation - at least until they get this fixed. Is booking online or saving the buck fifty really worth the hassles and headaches mentioned in this thread? Not to me - but even still, I do prefer to make my reservation online. That said, the big reason why I prefer to make reservations online is the ability to gauge how busy the area is. Now that the occupancy feature has been removed, and you still have to 'check-in' on arrival anyway, (despite paying 100% up-front and answering all q's) it's almost as if the online system is... completely pointless (Esp. given travel distance restrictions). The features that were important have been removed, travel restrictions have remained, thus the system is useless (to me).

Need a reservation without any travel distance limits or other errors? Call (888) 668-7275 and you'll get what you want in just a few minutes.

It sucks they couldn't successfully pull this off - but at the end of the day we still get to go camping

Now... if they do some REALLY stupid such as change the fee structure to a per site per night system and priced similarly to car campgrounds.. my tune will change and it will change mighty quick.

 
What Peek said.

Ok Peek we are allowed to go camping together. :-)


We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it.
 - George Washington Sears
 

2/24/2020 5:47 pm  #42


Re: new reservation system

SmedleyCo wrote:

So my point (finally) is that despite all the best intentions, shit happens.

I have no basis to judge the intentions, only what happens. And the logic leads to most obvious conclusion that the intentions are of the same quality as their consequences.
 

 

2/24/2020 7:21 pm  #43


Re: new reservation system

ryan72 wrote:

So, I am new here.   Do the horses help with portaging canoes?  They could be a real game changer.

Hahahahaha. I’m waiting to pick my son up from Beavers in a small church lobby and this made me lol. Now I’ve got a bunch of parents looking at me funny

 

2/24/2020 10:26 pm  #44


Re: new reservation system

John, do you genuinely believe that the cost of operating a call Center is less than that of a functional online service?

     Thread Starter
 

2/24/2020 10:59 pm  #45


Re: new reservation system

The proof is in the pudding? What proof?

The service is not great and will require fixing but I’ve seen no proof that it is, or ever will be more expensive than a call Center.

     Thread Starter
 

2/25/2020 5:40 am  #46


Re: new reservation system

Got it. The costs to you are your phone bill. There are a few more costs incurred by ontario parks for running the other end of that phone call.

     Thread Starter
 

2/25/2020 7:26 am  #47


Re: new reservation system

John I’m pretty sure we blew through the spot where people were interested in hearing my thoughts on this about 10 miles back but only because you asked me directly and then I think I’m out. I really don’t have anything else to add to the topic.

So the concept that processing customer transactions online is cheaper than vs a call center I don’t think should be all that controversial.
My company processes millions of transactions a year and there are entire departments of people whose sole job is to get as many of those transactions to be performed through a digital channel. That’s how much cheaper it is.

My $12 call estimate was based on my company. The $12 is an aggregate of all the costs associated with taking the call. Salary, computer,facilities, benefits etc. Ontario Parks cost is likely higher as my company benefits from significant economies of scale.   

I know this and it’s yet another reason why I want to make my reservations online. I don’t want the first night I book to barely be covering the Parks cost to take my phone reservation. I want the Parks balance sheet to look as good as possible because if they have more money they can service me better, maintain the Parks better. etc etc

So to come full circle another reason why the current poor functioning online system frustrates me as it isn’t allowing me and many others to do that.

Here endeth the rant. 😃

Last edited by ShawnD (2/25/2020 8:14 am)


We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it.
 - George Washington Sears
 

2/25/2020 8:49 am  #48


Re: new reservation system

100% call centers carry a greater expense than an online system (at least in the long run)  but with all these members calling in won't it help preserve jobs? Let's think of the impact of having people unemployed and the increase of the cost of social security to the province as a whole of the lost operator jobs.

Ha ha. Just pulling on this thread to see how deep it can go off topic. Smell of spring is in the air. Hopefully the online system changes will occur but if not, we'll all still get to go camping, regardless of what reservation system is in place. 

 

2/25/2020 12:23 pm  #49


Re: new reservation system

SmedleyCo wrote:

A longer day for sure. But only 1%? That seems like a stretch to me. Are we not campers??

Last years spring trip ranged from 16K to 32K for daily travel. But now that I think about it, those were some tough days. 

That's kind of far as it is about 8.5 hours on Jeff's Map, but very doable for reasonably fit and determined travelers. Now I'll just go totally off topic and say that I once made it from North Raven Lake out to Kiosk in exactly 7 hours but the wind was at my back, the current in my direction, and my trusty travel companion was carrying more more than her share of the load. Unfortunately she passed quite unexpectedly this Sunday. Probably something big and undetected went pop inside and she bled out internally. It's really thrown a wrench into any trip planning. Here's a pic from last September's trip to the west island on Craig Lake.

 

2/25/2020 12:47 pm  #50


Re: new reservation system

RCSpartan wrote:

100% call centers carry a greater expense than an online system (at least in the long run)  but with all these members calling in won't it help preserve jobs? Let's think of the impact of having people unemployed and the increase of the cost of social security to the province as a whole of the lost operator jobs.

No no no, those people will just be 'reassigned' to a different position once their operator position is no longer needed. And since these automated processes have created efficiencies and cost savings, these newly repositioned employees will get a nice pay bump due to Ontario Park's better financial position!
 


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2/25/2020 12:54 pm  #51


Re: new reservation system

solos wrote:

That's kind of far as it is about 8.5 hours on Jeff's Map, but very doable for reasonably fit and determined travelers. Now I'll just go totally off topic and say that I once made it from North Raven Lake out to Kiosk in exactly 7 hours but the wind was at my back, the current in my direction, and my trusty travel companion was carrying more more than her share of the load. Unfortunately she passed quite unexpectedly this Sunday. Probably something big and undetected went pop inside and she bled out internally. It's really thrown a wrench into any trip planning. Here's a pic from last September's trip to the west island on Craig Lake.

Gorgeous dog, sorry for your loss.

To the travel time conversation, for people who like to get on the water super early and don't mind getting to camp late in the day, 7-9 hours is totally reasonable. The longest I've personally done was double-carrying from McIntosh to Magnetawan... Jeff's Maps is about 9 hrs I did it in around 7.5hrs, but I got on the water at 7am so I finished the day around 2:30pm and could have travelled a decent bit further if needed. 3-5hrs of daily travel is the sweet spot that I enjoy most though.


Trip Reports & Campsite Pictures
algonquinbeyond.com
 

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