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Uppa wrote:
In an attempt to save a couple of pounds of gear weight I recently bought an Ursack, which will be heading into Algonquin with me very soon for a 9-day trip. I'll post my impressions of it when I get back.
Would love to hear those impressions now that your back. I can't decide between the Ursack and BearVault.
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I bought a small bear barrel from REI last year for my backpacking trips. It fits into my pack and gets left on the ground in camp.
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In an attempt to save a couple of pounds of gear weight I recently bought an Ursack, which will be heading into Algonquin with me very soon for a 9-day trip. I'll post my impressions of it when I get back.
Would love to hear those impressions now that your back. I can't decide between the Ursack and BearVault.
I'm... underwhelmed with the Ursack compared to my BearVault. The OPSacks you use with it (Odor Proof sacks) are annoying and fidgety to close, and so getting at my food is far more of a pain in the butt. 99.9% of the trees don't have a nice convenient large branch low enough down to tie it to, so it puts me back in the same situation that annoyed me with hanging bear bags - finding a good spot for it. Also I don't bring a camp chair, so my BearVault doubles as a seat on occasion when the ground is wet.
On the other hand the Ursack drops two full pounds off my pack weight compared to the BV500, which means that despite its drawbacks it will likely become my normal food container, at least for longer trips where weight is a bigger factor.
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So I'm finally back from my trip and wanted to report back on the bear bag. Unlike Uppa, I didn't have any problems closing the OPSacks. On my first campsite, I had a perfect branch for hanging the bag and was able to get my rope over it on my first try, but sure enough, at other campsites I ended up using branches that would have been inadequate had I been using a regular bag. In one case, I tied the bag to the trunk itself as high as I could reach for lack of any suitable branches around, not something I would have been comfortable doing with a regular bag. That said, my food was at much greater risk from chipmunks - those little guys were *so* demanding! It was interesting to see them try to get at my food the second it was out of the OPSack, but completely ignore the URSack once everything was stored inside, even when sitting around on the ground unattended during the day. I wouldn't be able to handle the extra weight and volume of a bear vault so I'm happy to keep using the URSack and hanging it on the best branch available but not worrying too much if the "best" is not ideal.
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1. Use a food barrel with a metal ring.
2. Tie it to a tree close enough to see from your shelter.
3. Defend it if necessary.
Above all, maintain a very clean campsite.
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I thought I’d provide an update on using a Ursack. We traditionally used blue barrels and hung them. It got to the point where carrying them was too hard on my body. We always carry a throw bag and I do a pretty good job with a hang bit when we converted to Ostrum packs I originally was going to hang food in dry bags and just wasn’t happy with that option.
We have a bear vault that I bought to try backpacking but I didn’t love that option in terms of space so I bought a 30 L ursack. I bought the kind that is good for both bears and smaller animals. I do hang it. At this point I’m comfortable with that. I don’t see any difference between the chance that my ursack might get knocked down and stolen and the chance that my blue barrels might get knocked down and eaten. Just a much lower chance that the bear is going to get a reward from the bag vs the barrel. Which is why I protect my food. I can paddle out in a day or two if I lose all my food. My main priority is not contributing to a bear being habituated.
The other thing that really changed my mind is I watched a video by a woman named Chris. They had an issue with a bear who came out of the woods when they opened their blue barrel - like it made a pop as the lid came off and the bear came. They chased it off. Hung a perfect bear hang between 2 trees. In the middle of the night the bear came back, climbed across their rope, tore open their barrel and ate everything. In contrast we saw a video in the US where he barrels are less common and the bear gave up after sniffing out the barrel. What I took from this was novel has some value. And it also reminded me that in order of protection from most to least, it is really: bear vault, ursack, blue barrel, dry bag. A ursack is more protective than a blue barrel - less than a bear vault.
So for me it seemed like the right choice - easier to carry than a blue barrel and more protective. I’ll use a bear vault in locations that require them and ursacks where it isn’t required. I just ordered a second 30 L ursack so I will have enough space for longer canoe trips.
Last edited by ChristineCanoes (10/06/2022 2:34 pm)
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Thanks for that update. It had been a while since I looked at the Ursacks and back then they were pretty small. A 30L Ursack is a useful size, much better than their original offering which was around 10L. They still aren't cheap, but I'm much more likely to consider a 30L Ursack.
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Rob,
You are welcome. They are insanely expensive. I wait for them to go on sale at 30% off at REI (which they do regularly) and then order them. I just ordered a second one this week so we can have 60L worth of space for longer trips.
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The other thing that really changed my mind is I watched a video by a woman named Chris. They had an issue with a bear who came out of the woods when they opened their blue barrel - like it made a pop as the lid came off and the bear came. They chased it off. Hung a perfect bear hang between 2 trees. In the middle of the night the bear came back, climbed across their rope, tore open their barrel and ate everything. In contrast we saw a video in the US where he barrels are less common and the bear gave up after sniffing out the barrel. What I took from this was novel has some value. And it also reminded me that in order of protection from most to least, it is really: bear vault, ursack, blue barrel, dry bag. A ursack is more protective than a blue barrel - less than a bear vault.
A couple things worth noting about that video you're referencing. The bear would have climbed across the cable that the park installed, not their rope. The cable would be much stronger, more stable, and able to support the weight of the bear more easily. Also the most important thing about their experience was that they were camped on one of the few lakes that bears are known to visit quite frequently. You're example of a bear in the US not recognizing the blue barrel would be how most bears in Algonquin Park would hopefully react. With the exception of Tom Thomson, Littledoe, and the few nearby lakes, it's not very often that bears visit backcountry campsites and get into a food supply. I do agree with you that the blue barrels don't offer the best protection compared to the other products available on the market, I just wouldn't let Chris' video represent Algonquin Park as a whole because they were camping in an area known for bear occurrences (which is why the park has cables installed at those sites)
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Agreed most bears in Algonquin won’t recognize blue barrels. I was really at the point that we were looking for a different option but certainly the idea of bears getting habituated concerns me and I felt like a ursack was the right combination of safety/ weight for me. I don’t think we are at a point where we need bear vaults in AP but I think the ursack is a good middle ground. Your mileage may vary 🤷🏻♀️
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It seems like the closer back country lakes surrounding popular access points have become very appealing for 'domesticated' bears. I assume more garbage/fresh food/lack of experience contributes to this, but overall more usage and activity over the last few years as well.
There is a video making the rounds of a gentleman named Dan who was camped on the French having his hammock torn open by a bear. His food was in an Ursack/dry bag/bear canister, and it sounds like the bear took the ursack with it.
Obviously the French is a popular spot as well, but this video is a great example of how even with proper food storage, animals will be animals.
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Absolutely a ursack isn’t a guarantee but for me what it does do is help me be part of the solution not the problem.
Bears get habituated when people do things like take coolers into the backcountry. Then the bears start associating sites with food and they eventually figure out things like how to get blue barrels down, pop the lids, tear them open, etc. Some bears in the US have learned how to unlatch bear vaults.
To me the point of using a ursack is if the bear gets it, it is still pretty unlikely ( it impossible but unlikely) they will get a reward (food). So a big part of the reason I went to a ursack was simply to make sure I didn’t contribute to the problem.
YMMV.
Last edited by ChristineCanoes (10/07/2022 3:55 pm)
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Just an update for anyone considering a ursack. REI has the 30 L Allmighty 40 percent off right now. I emailed REI and asked them to ship via USPS and it just cleared customs. Duty and tax was 35$ so even with the exchange rate it was way cheaper than anywhere else right now.
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Did some research on the ursack now. I still see people hanging them as they are NOT scent proof so this may not fully remedy your problem. There's is an alternative called Opsack? ? , that advertises scent proof also. The last thing I would want is a hungry bear , now a pissed bear batting an Ursack around my campsite frustrated he can't get in to it Lol! I've never had an issue with a campsite bear, yet, so I'll continue as we have for now. Bear vault may be best option IMO.
I've used the OPSak for years. IIRC, the Ursack used to include one, their product for claws, the OPSak to hopefully not need protection from claws.
I haven't done scientific testing but have left the OPSak on the ground in squirrel/racoon areas where there were no good trees without issue.
Of course user error can make them useless, for example sealing the bag with fish on your hands.
p.s. I recall there are different designes of Ursacks, one for critters and one for bears.
Last edited by keg (10/30/2022 7:06 pm)
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Did some research on the ursack now. I still see people hanging them as they are NOT scent proof so this may not fully remedy your problem. There's is an alternative called Opsack? ? , that advertises scent proof also. The last thing I would want is a hungry bear , now a pissed bear batting an Ursack around my campsite frustrated he can't get in to it Lol! I've never had an issue with a campsite bear, yet, so I'll continue as we have for now. Bear vault may be best option IMO.
I've used the OPSak for years. IIRC, the Ursack used to include one, their product for claws, the OPSak to hopefully not need protection from claws.
I haven't done scientific testing but have left the OPSak on the ground in squirrel/racoon areas where there were no good trees without issue.
Of course user error can make them useless, for example sealing the bag with fish on your hands.
p.s. I recall there are different designes of Ursacks, one for critters and one for bears.
So for people unfamiliar, the Opsak is designed to go inside something else (like a ursack). No, a ursack isn’t scent proof. Neither is a blue barrel.
And ursack now has a version that is good for both critters and bears.
