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4/10/2020 9:13 am  #35


Re: To paddle....or not.

rgcmce wrote:

To the points that trippythings mentioned I would add.  Can any activity that burns gas and thus necessitates extra trips to the gas station be rationalized?

That's what I was leading at with the question "would it be ok if everyone does it?". If one person goes for a paddle it's not making a big impact, but if 1,000 people do, that's more trips to the gas station, more chance of interaction with others, higher chance of someone getting injured and needing assistance, etc.

It's ok if I'm the only one going up to my cottage, but if thousands of people drive up north and there are now car accidents on the Hwy, is that ok when we don't have any ICU beds to spare?

Is it fair that I get to do these things while everyone else is staying home for the better of the community?

It's easy for people to rationalize in the sense of themselves but a lot harder to think of the collective whole and the unintentional/secondary repercussions of their actions. 

Just trying to continue to stir discussion https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

 


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4/10/2020 9:38 am  #36


Re: To paddle....or not.

If the pond and gas station are on the way to the grocery store?

Sorry Dbonney, I'll stop now and I get your pointhttps://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cool.png

 

4/10/2020 9:38 am  #37


Re: To paddle....or not.

Lol

     Thread Starter
 

4/10/2020 12:11 pm  #38


Re: To paddle....or not.

trippythings wrote:

rgcmce wrote:

....(I remain undecided about the ethics of day paddles.  (Camping is inappropriate at the present time.)  I think day paddles are probably OK under some circumstances in some environments.  But my personal choice is not at this time.  I will reevaluate in mid May when the bugs come out.)
 

An alternate way of looking at things would be to ask yourself "would this be ok to do if everyone was doing it?". For example, if you went on a day paddle, would it be ok if everyone who wanted to go for a day paddle ended up going? If you think that would create a high risk environment, then you should avoid going yourself. Why should you get to do something that is only an option for you at the expense of others? (rhetorical question). But if you ask that question and your answer is that it wouldn't create a high risk environment, then it's ok to do that activity without feeling guilty. As long as you're still working within the official/legal guidelines set out by the government.

- If everyone who wanted to go backcountry camping did end up going, would that create unnecessary risk right now?
- If everyone who wanted to go for a day paddle did end up going, would that create unnecessary risk right now?
- If everyone who wanted to go for a walk around their neighbourhood did end up walking, would that create unnecessary risk right now?
- If everyone who wanted to go to their cottage for the long weekend did end up going, would that create unnecessary risk right now?

I'm intentionally not giving my "yes" or "no" answers for each of those questions, but it's one way to look at things. If it's low-risk for me to do an activity only because everyone else isn't doing it, is that really fair?

And obviously the question doesn't apply for necessities like groceries and pharmacies, things you actually NEED (not just "want").

 
Not that many people paddle as an overall percentage of the population. So, if the paddling community got out there I'd say it's a good thing. There wouldn't be any risk of further infections (since it's a naturally socially distant activity). But more importantly it would give people much needed exercise and mental boost.

We need more outlets for physical activity besides walking in our neighborhoods... Especially ones that are inherently better for social distancing.

 

4/10/2020 12:14 pm  #39


Re: To paddle....or not.

And here we are, right where we started.

     Thread Starter
 

4/10/2020 1:09 pm  #40


Re: To paddle....or not.

trippythings wrote:

An alternate way of looking at things would be to ask yourself "would this be ok to do if everyone was doing it?" (...)

- If everyone who wanted to go backcountry camping did end up going, would that create unnecessary risk right now?
- If everyone who wanted to go for a day paddle did end up going, would that create unnecessary risk right now?
- If everyone who wanted to go for a walk around their neighbourhood did end up walking, would that create unnecessary risk right now?
- If everyone who wanted to go to their cottage for the long weekend did end up going, would that create unnecessary risk right now?

This is an excellent point. To me this encapsulates the ethics or morality of this discussion. It is a simple question that we can all ask ourselves. An honest answer should guide you well.

 

4/10/2020 1:28 pm  #41


Re: To paddle....or not.

JoeScmoe wrote:

Not that many people paddle as an overall percentage of the population. So, if the paddling community got out there I'd say it's a good thing. There wouldn't be any risk of further infections (since it's a naturally socially distant activity). But more importantly it would give people much needed exercise and mental boost.

We need more outlets for physical activity besides walking in our neighborhoods... Especially ones that are inherently better for social distancing.

So it's ok for the paddling community to get to continue enjoying their hobby, but not ok for everyone else?

It's true that the paddling community is a small percentage of the population, but if you account for all niche hobbies like paddling (birdwatching, hiking, hunting, fishing, horseback riding, etc.), and you open them all up, that's now a large percentage of the population we're talking about.​ Lots of activities are socially distancing by nature until everyone is doing them and then there are the secondary considerations (filling up gas, purchasing supplies, risk of injury, etc.). 

I obviously love paddling, but we're not any more special than everyone else.

Again it's thinking about the collective whole, and right now while the pandemic is still in exponential growth, the best thing everyone can do is just stay home.


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4/10/2020 2:38 pm  #42


Re: To paddle....or not.

trippythings wrote:

JoeScmoe wrote:

Not that many people paddle as an overall percentage of the population. So, if the paddling community got out there I'd say it's a good thing. There wouldn't be any risk of further infections (since it's a naturally socially distant activity). But more importantly it would give people much needed exercise and mental boost.

We need more outlets for physical activity besides walking in our neighborhoods... Especially ones that are inherently better for social distancing.

So it's ok for the paddling community to get to continue enjoying their hobby, but not ok for everyone else?

It's true that the paddling community is a small percentage of the population, but if you account for all niche hobbies like paddling (birdwatching, hiking, hunting, fishing, horseback riding, etc.), and you open them all up, that's now a large percentage of the population we're talking about.​ Lots of activities are socially distancing by nature until everyone is doing them and then there are the secondary considerations (filling up gas, purchasing supplies, risk of injury, etc.). 

I obviously love paddling, but we're not any more special than everyone else.

Again it's thinking about the collective whole, and right now while the pandemic is still in exponential growth, the best thing everyone can do is just stay home.

 
Disagree. Given the length that this thing is going to be, we need to take care of our physical and mental health via activities that are naturally conducive to social distance. Obesity, heart disease, depression, anxiety, and many, many other conditions will result if we don't. The cure can't be worse than the disease.

 

4/10/2020 3:00 pm  #43


Re: To paddle....or not.

All of those conditions can be managed on a short term basis while we isolate. The longest estimates for a vaccine are 18 months. Some as short as 6 months.

     Thread Starter
 

4/10/2020 3:27 pm  #44


Re: To paddle....or not.

Jdbonney wrote:

All of those conditions can be managed on a short term basis while we isolate. The longest estimates for a vaccine are 18 months. Some as short as 6 months.

Also you don't become obese within a few months lol

I do agree with Jdbonney that depression and anxiety are major issues that will need to be addressed though. But a lot of it can be coordinated while staying distanced.

We don't necessarily need to wait for the vaccine to resume paddling/camping either. Measures will loosen up gradually, and I would assume/hope that camping would be early on the list of things to resume.

edit: also there's no reason why people can't get exercise in their own homes. Jumping jacks, body weight exercises, purchasing a treadmill/stationary bike. There are countless options for exercise and many methods of releiving stress and anxiety from your own home. None of them will be perfect solutions but we shouldn't be as entitled to think that we need to continue our favourite sport/hobby in order to remain healthy. There are always alternative options and compromises need to be made.

Last edited by trippythings (4/10/2020 3:31 pm)


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4/10/2020 3:36 pm  #45


Re: To paddle....or not.

  gee,,,sorry officer,, i have no idea how that canoe got on top of my van,, 

 

4/10/2020 3:41 pm  #46


Re: To paddle....or not.

swedish pimple wrote:

  gee,,,sorry officer,, i have no idea how that canoe got on top of my van,, 

 
Hilarious.

     Thread Starter
 

4/10/2020 4:22 pm  #47


Re: To paddle....or not.

My best friend is a cop. We're going kayaking next week... Staying 2m apart of course.

 

4/10/2020 4:23 pm  #48


Re: To paddle....or not.

Have a good time.

     Thread Starter
 

4/10/2020 5:20 pm  #49


Re: To paddle....or not.

I think JoeScmoe is bored.  Perhaps he should go fishing to practice his trolling.

 

4/10/2020 8:17 pm  #50


Re: To paddle....or not.

rgcmce wrote:

I think JoeScmoe is bored.  Perhaps he should go fishing to practice his trolling.

 
I know it seems like a troll job, but my best friend is a cop. He wouldn't go kayaking if it were illegal.

Hopefully once the ban on the park is lifted my posts can be more trip oriented rather than about coronavirus. Unfortunately I won't have a lot to offer as I'm a newbie in the park and I'll mostly have questions.

In the meantime, if anyone was ever looking to mix things up and take a trip to the Adirondacks (after the border ban is lifted), I can answer a lot of those questions.

 

4/10/2020 9:05 pm  #51


Re: To paddle....or not.

JoeScmoe wrote:

...since it's a naturally socially distant activity...

This is so true. When you are paddling tandem you are naturally 2 m away from your partner.
 

 

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