Algonquin Adventures / Disposable Items

**Posted by ChristineCanoes** 10/06/2022 3:16 pm

Hi Everyone,

This has been bothering me for awhile and I would really like other people on this forum’s interpretation. I am honestly a little reticent that post because when I’ve discussed it in other forums people have been unkind but I think everyone here will be civil.

Okay here goes:

This is what the FOA website says:

Under the ban, no person shall possess any non-burnable food or beverage containers other than containers and eating utensils that are specifically designed and intended for repeated use and for which no deposit is charged; and containers that are specifically designed for dehydrated foods. Metal foil is permitted, as are containers of fuel, insect repellent, medicine, or other items that are not food or beverages.

The garbage bags from AP say don’t burn plastic on them.

So if I read this, I think this means

- I can take burnable disposables (so no plastic)
- I can take reusable containers that don’t require a deposit (so Nalgene bottles, Ziplocks, etc.)
- I can take metal foil
- I can have dehydrated foods in packaging

But I can’t take non burnable non reusable non dehydrated packaging.

So for example, I couldn’t bring a plastic vodka bottle or Starbucks
Via coffee (because it comes in plastic but I could bring instant coffee I’ve transferred to a Nalgene).

Does anyone else read it this way? I am constantly finding the plastic packaging from single use lemonade and granola bar wrappers on trail. Am I nuts to think we aren’t supposed to have those (presumably because people drop them all over the place)?

Last edited by ChristineCanoes (10/06/2022 3:17 pm)

**Posted by solos** 10/06/2022 10:46 pm

I think Algonquin's can and bottle ban will only get you in trouble if you have a metal can or a glass bottle. My stuff has never been searched before so I can't say for sure. Also, I've never seen what is printed on the yellow garbage bags because I always decline them. But I do know that plastics, which are mostly hydrocarbons, burn quite well. Even those plastic wrappers with an aluminum coating seem to disappear completely into the ashes but I think you have a good point with that because I'm probably adding all sorts of tiny melted aluminum to the park environment.

**Posted by scratchypants** 10/07/2022 5:51 am

I burn the aluminum stuff and then sort through the cold ashes before leaving, packing out whatever did not break down.

I bring my bourbon in a plastic flask, which is specifically designed for repeated use.

I doubt they'd make a distinction between dehydrated and freeze-dried, so your coffee is covered.

But just go onto Youtube and watch a few AP-based videos and you'll see that about 1 in 3 pack in cans of beer. That bugs me.

**Posted by rgcmce** 10/07/2022 12:46 pm

I think much apparent inconsistency in the rules as it relates to plastics is that the rules predate the widespread use of plastics in food and beverage packaging. Plastic vodka bottles and plasticized foil pouches were unheard of.

**Posted by TripperMike** 10/07/2022 1:03 pm

I carry a second nalgene dedicated for whisky, as it would typically come in a glass bottle. I can almost guarantee that no ranger or warden is going to give you a hard time over a plastic bottle of vodka, tetra or box of wine, or other non metal/glass alcohol packaging.

As for the containers specific to dehydrated food? I feel like this is related to canned foods, applesauce/fruit cups/yogurt cups/tuna tins etc. (many of which I have dug out of firepits upon arrival at a site). I doubt any CO is going to bother you about some dehydrated pasta in a ziplock bag.

And yes, the recommendation from ONparks is to not burn your garbage/pack it in - pack it out. But in the wise words of Cliff Jacobson, the long drive up to the park you're camping in is far worse on emissions and the ozone layer than burning a handful of small plastic bags.

**Posted by ChristineCanoes** 10/07/2022 3:31 pm

So to be clear I’m not personally worried. I want to know how others read these regulations.

Ziplocs are multi use so I think they meet the reg. If you take in bought or homemade dehydrated food in plastic it’s covered.

I don’t burn plastic but I’m not here to judge anyone else’s choices. I just am interested in how others read them. I’m not worried about a warden. I just want to know what you think the rules actually say.

I think what it says is you can’t bring single use plastic unless it’s a dehydrated meal.

I agree that part of this is that the regs were written a long time ago.

We are almost completely homemade at this point in terms of food. So it’s really more that I want to understand the rules then being worried.

**Posted by scoutergriz** 10/08/2022 5:47 am

as a long- time paddler I remember the days when every site had a can dump, and the big issue was injuries (my cousin needed 17 stitches after falling on a broken bottle) from stepping on rusty cans or broken bottles, so I suspect the rule came about due to it being a safety issue more than an environmental one because there wasn't a lot of movement on the environmental scene by the Ontario government in the 70's

**Posted by ChristineCanoes** 10/08/2022 6:39 am

That’s really interesting. I had always assumed it was related to LNT practices.

**Posted by tentsterforever** 10/15/2022 6:08 pm

I’ve always understood the regulations as no cans or glass due to the possibility of injury to animals and humans.
You pack out plastic bags like ziplocks and used aluminium. This thinking was reinforced 5-6 years ago when my food back was checked by a ranger. There was no issues with purchased “add boiling water and wait 15 minutes” meals, as long as empty packages were packed out. Everything else we had was reusable. We put snack wrapping into a ziplock and took it home.

**Posted by rgcmce** 10/15/2022 6:27 pm

Do rangers (wardens) have the authority to search your food pack?

**Posted by swedish pimple** 10/15/2022 8:13 pm

yes,, not speaking from experience,, i read about pack searches in the toronto sun years ago,, the trippers were pissed,, and they made complaints ,,

**Posted by Rob** 10/15/2022 9:46 pm

rgcmce wrote:
Do rangers (wardens) have the authority to search your food pack?

I believe it is based on probable cause to believe you may be concealing something, and yes this would include your tent.
Also keep in mind most rangers or C.O.'S have been watching your site with big binoculars from the lake and probable cause has probably been established long before they step out of the canoe.

**Posted by ChristineCanoes** 10/16/2022 10:38 am

tentsterforever wrote:
I’ve always understood the regulations as no cans or glass due to the possibility of injury to animals and humans.
You pack out plastic bags like ziplocks and used aluminium. This thinking was reinforced 5-6 years ago when my food back was checked by a ranger. There was no issues with purchased “add boiling water and wait 15 minutes” meals, as long as empty packages were packed out. Everything else we had was reusable. We put snack wrapping into a ziplock and took it home.

I agree that add water meals are covered. They don’t refer to freeze dried because when the regs were written people were using dehydrated. My food is all dehydrated but the line about dehydrated food I think covers meals. I’m more wondering about things like:

- single serve juice packs
- a disposable vodka plastic bottle
- bread, cheese, granola bars, candy, pepperettes in its original packaging (vs repackaged in reusable containers)

**Posted by ChristineCanoes** 10/16/2022 10:43 am

rgcmce wrote:
Do rangers (wardens) have the authority to search your food pack?

I believe they do based on probable cause. I think it is also perfectly acceptable to cordially ask for them to provide that probable cause to you. We once arrived at AP and due to a fire ban were told we had to open our packs and show the warden our stove before they would issue our permit.

The problem was we had 2 barrels and the stove was at the bottom of one of them.

Through a conversation we were able to convince the warden that we did have a stove, did know how to use it and weren’t intending to use a fire. As a result, we didn’t have to empty our pack.

I would have done it if necessary it just seemed like overkill because some other people in line were being unreasonable.

**Posted by tentsterforever** 10/16/2022 6:37 pm

We were asked to open our packs at the permit office before we got our permit. This was at the Kearney permit office. As we had a seperate pack for food. It didn’t bother us, it didn’t take long.

**Posted by tentsterforever** 10/16/2022 6:59 pm

As to the products you mention Christine, why not pack the wrappers /bags/bottles of any of them out if you’re not sure? It’s easy enough to use a ziplock for those items packed in plastics you’re not sure you can burn. That way you won’t have to worry about the regs.

**Posted by scoutergriz** 10/17/2022 8:05 am

rgcmce wrote:
Do rangers (wardens) have the authority to search your food pack?

technically yes, due to the lack of direct communication with the courts and inability for officers to actually get a warrant in a timely fashion they are allowed to search
"11.2 For the purpose of ensuring compliance with this Act and the regulations, a wildlife officer may exercise the powers of search and seizure provided in section 487 of the Criminal Code without a warrant if the conditions for obtaining a warrant exist but by reason of exigent circumstances it would not be feasible to obtain the warrant."
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/w-9/page-2.html