You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

7/18/2016 12:08 pm  #1


Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

As a hiker first, I like the idea of a solo trip deep into the park that combines hiking and paddling but truly light solo canoes are out of my price range and I detest double-carrying.

Looking for experiences or opinions on pack rafts and whether or not this could be a workable option. Despite weighing 5 lbs or less, some of them are quite tough and only a few hundred dollars.

https://gearjunkie.com/pack-rafts

 

7/18/2016 12:58 pm  #2


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

I'm not sure what to think about portaging that.  I guess you could deflate it each time, but yeesh that would get old fast.  Trying to carry it inflated, if the wind didn't try taking it and if the path was wide enough I guess you might be ok, but talk about a bulky thing to carry, especially with a backpack putting it in uncomfortable positions.

Paddling is where my immediate concern would come in.  I'm sure you've already considered the possibility of puncture and the need for repair, but if puncture happens in the wrong spot (in water, where you drag over a tree branch or rock - which happens to everybody, usually not sharp, but it only takes one....) you'll be in tough shape, as in peril on the sea.  

Unlike a canoe, where you can control it reasonably even in somewhat difficult conditions, using a j-stroke, I think you'd be switching sides every other stroke, which would be maddening.  It would move at a snail's pace, which would be super-maddening while your arms move at a cheetah's pace (not that much surface area in contact with the water I guess, but it would not exactly be cutting through the water).  It would be very much subject to the whims of the wind.  You'd have an awful time trying to get from point A to point B with a cross wind or head on wind or any kind of wind really.  It would just blow you all over.  There used to be canoes made with really high bow and stern, and the chief complaint with those is they are difficult to control in the wind. Here we're talking about a flat balloon that sits on top of the water, that draws like a quarter of an inch.  The underside isn't "holding on" to anything like even a small keel will on a canoe.  Lastly, if you were in a circumstance where there was some chop, I think you might find that with a load you'd take on water rather than ride over it.  I could be wrong about that, but I think I'm spot on with the previous three points.

I get what you say about the expense of canoes, but you know what, craigslist certainly seems to have a lot of them, including lightweight models.  They'll likely cost more than this for sure, but I'd rather do double portage work if it came down to it.  I'll bet some of the regulars here can point you to some rental places that would keep things moderate for you.  That would keep costs down, and give you the opportunity to see what a lightweight canoe feels like - try before you buy.  I really think it would be a struggle to move that raft effectively on the water.

One other thought - I don't know anything about kayaks - as in anything - but I wonder if that might provide a solution for you. 
 

 

7/18/2016 2:19 pm  #3


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

Thanks for the feedback - there are arrow shaped designs that help with tracking and I think an ultralight dual-bladed paddle would be a must. My concern is how high they would ride and the wind, as you mentioned.

Punctures would be a risk, yes, I'm just not sure how big of a risk at the moment. The materials used on the top brands seem durable and reviews are generally positive. If massive failure (puncture plus patch failure) is likely to occur 5% of the time or more, that's too risky. 1 or 2%, I might be willing to risk it. This is where I'm hoping to get some feedback.

As for renting a canoe, a weekly solo canoe rental ($200) costs about the same as a Klymit LWD packraft does to buy (even cheaper for you Americans on Massdrop right now - $105), which is why I'm hoping this isn't such a crazy idea. I've had a tough time sourcing a used, sub-40lb solo canoe or kayak for anything less than $1000 and I've been looking for a year.

Would try anything locally before embarking on a trip, for sure.

     Thread Starter
 

7/18/2016 4:47 pm  #4


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

I've had the same thoughts about buying a packraft. I think they are primarily billed as whitewater and river craft. I think I've read about people using them on lakes but in real remote hike in locations. I would love to hear about people's experience in them in algonquin. I think any kind of wind would make them difficult to paddle.

I'm primarily a hiker, zero canoe experience and when I do hike it's usually for over a week somewhere out west in the mountains. I like heading out to algonquin for a quick weekend maybe once or twice a summer and I think renting a canoe and getting it back would be a bit tedious for a short weekend. Something like a pack boat or a packraft would make sense, but some of the packrafts by alpacka are almost a grand US!

 

7/19/2016 8:01 am  #5


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

If you bought an Alpaka I would not be worried about punctures. I think it comes down to a few things: price, ease of use, time in boat. Pakrafts are designed to work like kayaks and are more for remote trips that involve whitewater. I wouldn't recommend them for Algonquin. To me there are better options. Canoes are easier to portage, lighter and faster on the water. If you are willing to watch, deals do come up. We bought a Temagami (2 tone) in excellent shape for 500$. All we have to do is replace the gunnels. That being said, I have seen many people in Algonquin using strategies I would not use. So if it is what you want, go for it.

 

7/20/2016 7:39 am  #6


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

This is an interesting topic to me as I purchased an Alpacka packraft this winter, and have played with it a bit in a variety of conditions, but have yet to try it out in a backcountry setting like Algonquin or similar. I got the Explorer 42 model. My general comments are:

- It's slower than a tandem canoe, a kayak or a solo canoe paddled by an experienced soloist. In the right conditions its speed is competitive with a solo canoe paddled by a mediocre soloist. So don't plan ambitious distances with it.

- Contrary to what I'd heard, I have little trouble keeping it oriented while paddling; perhaps the addition of the tapered stern on the more recent models has helped with that. But it has difficulty against strong winds, moreso than other paddle craft. So avoid big lakes in your routes, and if you must cross one work some flexibility into the schedule, try to be travelling with the prevailing winds, etc.

- From my understanding, not yet from personal experience, the best way to portage it is to have a strap between the gunwales that you pass over your pack, so you simply wear your pack and the packraft stands attached to the back of it. There are some videos on youtube. Alternately, the things are so light it might not be a big deal to just carry it over your shoulder while wearing your pack.

- For paddling, definitely use a kayak-style paddle. That's what it's designed for. I got this convertible paddle with it and I only use it in canoe paddle mode if I'm tandem paddling it.

- Speaking of which: I chose that model in part because it's a 2-person setup. But I don't think it would work for a 2-person multi-day trip, because with 2 people in it there isn't a lot of room for gear. Maybe if you were ultralight tripping champions, or maybe after I've played with configurations more. In fact I wouldn't use it tandem with someone you're not comfortable getting up close and touchy with, unless you're both short. For a solo trip it would have ample room for gear, though. I can't speak to the gear capacity of the smaller models.

- Having said the above, I didn't get a cargo fly, which I suppose would increase the gear capacity.

Overall: I would not use a packraft in place of a canoe for typical Algonquin canoe trips, but it might be a good option for some types of trips. It depends what you mean by "combining hiking and paddling". If you want to follow a canoe route that's made of short paddles and long portages, the type that most people would avoid because it's more time on the trail than on the water, a packraft could be a good option, perhaps a larger model to accommodate gear. If you want to do backpacking trips with paddling side-trips along the way, e.g. hike to a base camp on the trail and make day trips on the adjacent lakes/portages, a smaller packraft model could be the way to go. But if you just want to do conventional canoe routes without schlepping an old clunker on the portages, I'd say hold out for a good deal on kevlar.

Last edited by DanPM (7/21/2016 8:13 am)

 

7/20/2016 2:49 pm  #7


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

Great feedback, thanks Dan. Your point about speed being competitive with a solo canoe being paddled by mediocre soloists in the right conditions is about what I was hoping for. A loss of efficiency, for sure, hopefully more than made up by flexibility and efficiency elsewhere.

"If you want to follow a canoe route that's made of short paddles and long portages, the type that most people would avoid because it's more time on the trail than on the water, a packraft could be a good option"

That's exactly what I was thinking - the kind of trip where double carries on long portages would suck the fun right out of it or where the sheer number of portages is daunting. Will open up new lakes to me I wouldn't think of doing solo otherwise. At the very least, will be a new angle on route planning as I stare longingly at Jeff's map.

     Thread Starter
 

9/13/2016 1:27 pm  #8


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

Late comment but an interesting thread.....
I'm definitely for a canoe when it comes to back country portaging but there are situations where these types of rafts would come in real handy; I've been known to occasionally bushwack into inaccessible lakes and a pack raft would be ideal for such a situation.  Another example may be a down-river, white water trip, where having a flat bottom raft would be an asset in the current and the typically confined spaces of a river would reduce the wind issues...

I remember running into two ladies on Marie Lake a few years back, they had left their canoe on St. Andrews and hiked up that god-awful portage with a raft so they could fish for the day.  I recall being more than a bit humbled that I hadn't thought of that sooner, seeing how I had dragged my not-so-light royalex canoe up that goat path more than once....
 

 

9/17/2016 10:38 am  #9


Re: Packrafts - Suitable for Algonquin?

FYI, I just posted a trip report on a short little hiking/packrafting trip in QE2WPP on the myCCR forum: http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=45358

Not quite the type of trip you're talking about using the packraft for, but still an example of using it for hiking and flatwater crossing in Shield country.

 

Board footera

LNT Canada is a national non-profit organization dedicated to promoting responsible outdoor recreation through education, research and partnerships.