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A single portage >1500m does the trick the last couple of years. I suspect this will hold true for a while, as long as canoes weigh >20lbs. I imagine that when someone makes a 10-lb canoe, that will be the end of solitude in APP entirely.
So we should be discouraging lightweight canoe development. I don't see any other solutions.
Cheers
M
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Agreed Shawn. I only got to the park last year once a for a 2 night'r on Potter. Keeping the Park clean is a legit concern and with no tutorial or overview about tripping do's and don'ts we will only see more of that.
Aside from the mess of the site (toilet paper, and arrow from a bow, etc) and lack of respect or maybe knowledge. Another concern is safety for the slew of inexperienced paddlers who bite of more than they can chew.
We saw many people who clearly haven't paddle a canoe before or at least didn't know how. Which based off of that is fair to say they probably lack the knowledge to safely and respectfully camp in the back country.
ShawnD wrote:
it is great news that more people are actively enjoying the outdoors. It presents opportunities for everyone - to learn, experience and share!
For those who feel this is bad and ruins their experience - move on towards the north and enjoy your journey!Sorry PA but I don't think its that simple. Yes I agree more people enjoying the outdoors and getting out to shake off the covid cabin fever is a very good thing. Helps with our collective mental health.
My concern isn't about increased competition for reservations though. I'm an early booker anyway and am still capable of portaging anywhere in the Park to get beyond the congestion. It's the Park abuse I saw a marked increase in last year. Was I the only one? Increase in garbage..live trees cut down etc .. that coupled with other things mentioned. Increase in poor portage etiquette, fishing pressure etc...
I worry about the future of the Park I love.
If people like me who try to leave the place better than I found it. People who pack out others garbage, leave cut firewood for the next group, repair firepits and so on stop going and are replaced by someone who cuts down a live tree for a better view of the lake and leaves TP all over their site.. well.. I worry.
Not much I can really do about it though except continue to do my part and hope that the Park uses some of the increased funds to improve education and enforcement.
I'm confident that once things open up people will flock back to their all-inclusives and regular vacation travel.
Until then we'll still have to portage a bit further and keep our special spots a secret.
As for education and enforcement, that doesn't seem to be the Park's strong suit. Never have I been asked before setting off what is my paddling or back country experience. The scene I witnessed on a Saturday at Opeongo this summer during a storm was outright comical. If you notice that a paddler is wearing only cotton in a downpour and relies on garbage bags to keep their sleeping bag dry while crossing Opeongo, it may be a red flag.
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I find the focus on AP's attention/inattention of safety and interior rules quite interesting. Do we have similar concerns or expectations with other sources like this?
Consider a grocery store - when I purchase my fish for dinner they do nothing to tell me about safe food handling (it is sometimes printed on the package - much like the PFD and other safety reminders that are posted in the permit offices in Algonquin).
When I buy a car at a dealership - they require proof of a driver's license and insurance but they don't do anything to inquire or assess my knowledge of safely operating a deadly vehicle. The licensing system demonstrates that I passed an assessment at age 16...and is probably the closest thing to what we would all envision as 'helpful' - proof that I was instructed on safe operation and passed an assessment.
If I buy a shotgun for duck hunting...I show ID and I'm on my way.
The park barely has the funding and resources to manage its operational functions - is it reasonable to ask or expect them to conduct safety assessment and training for the 800,000 visitors (only a fraction of that number visit the interior - got that number off a site on the web, don't know how accurate it is) or should those visitors bear the brunt of their individual responsibility like they do in the grocery store, car dealership, gun shop, etc.?
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I think safety protocol comes down to why you think people get into trouble in the first place. Is it:
A) People who knowingly take unnecessary risks. They know what they should be doing, they just choose not to.
B) People who are ignorant of the risks. Have just never been told certain things.
Also I think you could create the same buckets for camping etiquette. Some people think you can burn live trees. Never been told otherwise.
I have no doubt bucket A is very big, imo it's the majority. Probably nothing you can do for education to help these people.
Bucket B is not small though and was probably larger than normal last year and will be again this year with all the newbies heading in.
There are some simple things we could do to help bucket B I think.. wouldn't have to involve a training session or any great expense.
Simple questions in early spring and late fall such as.. Are you aware that the current water temperature could kill you if you fall in? if they answer no.. make sure a plan is suggested to them.. The correct procedure is to not head out on the water in difficult conditions and as soon as you feel unsafe at all, make your way to shore ASAP and wait it out. It's best practice at this time to paddle as close to shore as possible.
Simple suggestions that could save a life. The death on Opeongo in Oct is a good example. My guess is that group were very inexperienced and just didn't know or think of those things.
Search and rescue cases were up significantly last year. You only need to avoid one of those every few years to make a strong business case for asking a few more questions.
For water temps maybe it's as simple as a sign they haul out in early spring at every access point that has clear warnings and appropriate procedures listed.
In my opinion lots of simple cheap ideas out there that could save lives.
Last edited by ShawnD (3/01/2021 11:54 am)
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my son " the pancake kid" took canoeing courses from scouts canada .
i like the first things first approach , in the spring time, every kid had to jump into the water a week after ice out with there clothes on to get the feel of the wet clothes and the chill of the water,, a lot of instant respect learned that evening,,
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my son " the pancake kid" took canoeing courses from scouts canada .
i like the first things first approach , in the spring time, every kid had to jump into the water a week after ice out with there clothes on to get the feel of the wet clothes and the chill of the water,, a lot of instant respect learned that evening,,
Awesome, a great practice in a controlled environment. I was a TA for the outdoor ed program at my high school during my last year and 2 years after graduating. We were lucky enough to have an indoor pool to practice canoe rescues in full clothing before taking the students on 4/5 day back country trips. The teacher would make sure the pool was cold to show the effects cold water can have on you when trying to work in the water.
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Side note. I sat in on an Interactive webinar with Dr. Gordon Giesbrecht aka Professor Popsicle, last week. This webinar and most of his career basically centers on the effects of cold water, hypothermia and tips for cold water survival. It was part of an Ice Water Rescue course I've been taking . Interesting stuff for sure and good knowledge to have for anyone adventuring in to the back country during shoulder seasons or anytime essentially. Check it out if intersted.
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Does anyone know if you can book sites that show Partially booked (Purple)? I assume that means people are leaving that day but what do I know.
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My experience is that it means someone is in the process of booking that site. Check in 15 minutes. They will have booked it or left it for you.
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Does anyone know if you can book sites that show Partially booked (Purple)? I assume that means people are leaving that day but what do I know.
If you are trying to book multiple nights on a specific site, it means the campsite is available for some of the dates requested. Look at the calendar view for available dates, it will make more sense.
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Thanks, It finally updated to booked. Must have been a delay in the system.
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So looking at sites for the spring and they are all Orange and can't be booked. What is up with that?
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So looking at sites for the spring and they are all Orange and can't be booked. What is up with that?
Are you trying to book dates before May 14? The park doesn't allow any back country reservations online before May 14th unless ice out is declared earlier.
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Before May 14?
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So looking at sites for the spring and they are all Orange and can't be booked. What is up with that?
Are you trying to book dates before May 14? The park doesn't allow any back country reservations online before May 14th unless ice out is declared earlier.
What he said.
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I called in to change a reservation for that May 14th weekend. When I tried to extend reservation and book May 13th (orange online) , the agent said that was not even possible. First come first serve after ice out declared. Did I get a rookie agent who is not well informed? Should I have been able to book May 13th via phone?
