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Keep this in mind... Coronavirus is NOT going away until we either:
a) Find a vaccine, which most experts say is 18 months out. Or,
b) Enough of us get infected and we achieve "herd immunity" from the disease.
Staying locked down in our homes for 18 months in our current state is not a solution. The government needs to give us a certain amount of freedoms back where we can achieve "somewhat" of a normal life, but keeps the spread of the disease to manageable levels. This level would be an R0 level below 1.
We are NOT going to get rid of this by staying home.
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JoeScmoe wrote:
...Staying locked down in our homes for 18 months in our current state is not a solution. The government needs to give us a certain amount of freedoms back where we can achieve "somewhat" of a normal life, but keeps the spread of the disease to manageable levels. This level would be an R0 level below 1....
If you haven't already seen it, you might find this to be an interesting read:
It basically explains that strict lockdown is needed at the beginning, but once the virus is controlled, social freedoms can slowly open up again until i) vaccine or ii) herd immunity. It's building off your points but explaining that even though we're looking at a time horizon of 18-months, an 18-month 'lockdown' isn't necessary. Like you mentioned, once we get to an R0 <1 we can start the 'dance' (from the articles analogy) and have social freedoms back.
edit: I'm hoping that together as a country we can enforce the 'hammer' and start to 'dance' by the summer, so things like APP can open up again by July/August/September
Last edited by trippythings (4/06/2020 1:28 am)
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Quite the article. Good explanation of the "R factor".
I'm fortunate in being in a relatively low density area and able to keep at least 12 feet away from the few others I encounter while on my daily walks. It must be very stressful for those who live in dense neighborhoods and even more so for those who live in apartment or condo buildings.
My respect for healthcare workers is definitely growing, as is my sympathy for those living in more crowded conditions.
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Lots of charts and data and some excellent perspective, but also some faulty assumptions and statements in the article. But the underlying message is a good one of do all that we can to control the outbreak.
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Following on to Barry's latest comment, we're able to effectively distance in our town, and even at the grocery store people are mindful about distance and common surfaces. Unfortunately, it only takes one to sneak past the goalie. Nursing homes here are on lockdown, but a few residents of a nursing home near our house tested positive. Now all residents and staff are being tested. That won't end well I'm afraid. My dad is in a different nursing home, and it is upsetting to think that if he were to die of anything within the next few months that family members would not be able to be there to comfort him in his final moments. A lot of people facing that exact situation. If it happens it happens, but it still stinks.
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Given that all signs are that we're going to be stuck with this for a year plus, we should not find this treatment of families of patients in end of life acceptable.
Hospitals should have the right Hazmat suits ready for families so they can be with their loved ones one last time before they pass.
Also, on a side note, I've jumped on this board at such an unfortunate time. I do most of my "adventuring" in the mountains of the Adirondack Park. Ever since I was a kid, I've been fascinated with mountains, and the Adirondacks are the closest range of any significance to southern Ontario. Once the borders closed, it was finally time to hit Algonquin, as it's always been a back burner trip I've been meaning to do. It sucks that it likely won't happen. Maybe eventually the government will come around and give us back the freedom to engage in activities with low social interaction. Here's hoping.
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The mountains and lakes will still be there when this is over. Hopefully with some well needed regeneration and regrowth.
I understand this board is full of people from all over Ontario, Canada, and even the US. As someone who lives in the core of Toronto, I can tell you this is getting worse day by day, and it will eventually get to those suburban and rural areas if we do not act now. If we can all come together and do our best to limit travel and outings, we can get back to enjoying the activities we love. If not, no one is going anywhere this year.
Take this time to air out the gear, practice knots, refinish your paddles and plan all those trips.
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Now we have what I call a lock down in Ontario, even though that term is not used by Premier Ford.
He did say though early this afternoon on CTV news that we should not drive anywhere, not go walking, running or bicycling at all in Ontario because you might get covid-19 on your shoes or bicycle tires and track it back home.
He was basically speaking about what he witnessed Torontonians doing this past weekend on walk ways, path ways and bicycle paths..
Last edited by boknows (4/06/2020 2:41 pm)
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most public boat launches are off limits ,, the walls are closing in,,
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I havent been on here in a few months and just jumped on to see if Algonquin is closed and if so what everyone thinks. This is a tough call. Some good points on both sides when it comes to closing back country camping (I think they didn't have any choice on car campgrounds). Could they stagger the use of campsites .. .for example if someone has reserved a site then dont re-book that site for 3 days or so. According to the experts the virus only stays on most surfaces for about 3 days (plastic and metal a little longer). That would allow at least some camping. Having said that … yes there might be some stops for gas, food, etc. and although many of us here would minimize that, some wouldn't and that doesn't help right now.
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Now we have what I call a lock down in Ontario, even though that term is not used by Premier Ford.
He did say though early this afternoon on CTV news that we should not drive anywhere, not go walking, running or bicycling at all in Ontario because you might get covid-19 on your shoes or bicycle tires and track it back home.
He was basically speaking about what he witnessed Torontonians doing this past weekend on walk ways, path ways and bicycle paths..
Hi Ken. I too saw today's press briefing by Premier Doug Ford. Here's the link to the YouTube record of that briefing, starting at the spot you're referring to ..
What I got out of it was that he was lamenting the crowded Toronto urban parks and main lake-shore path, plus the unhealthy practices of a few with the products of sneezing and spitting going on the ground and getting picked-up on shoes that end-up at home. He did go on to say that "maybe the next step is to lay some charges".
In my opinion, for you to represent the premier as saying we should not drive, walk, run or bicycle anywhere is a grossly inaccurate. In the past I asked that "we fact-check our 'news' before posting it". I'm now repeating that request directly.
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Barry The video you shared is not what I remember hearing or seeing. Perhaps I was reading the small posts at the bottom of your TV when this is airing or had aired. I really do not remember. But I do remember hearing or reading that exercising outdoors at the moment is not the right thing to do. So whether you are exercising in Toronto urban parks, and/or a main lakeshore path or some other area, you still have the risk of picking up the virus on your shoes and taking it back home with you. I never heard about this until today. To me, that is a simple conclusion to arrive at. And just perhaps l am mixing what Ford said to what is now happening in Ottawa. And that is to stay inside, no unnecessary driving (no Tim Horton's coffee in the morning for me), only 1 person per family to go shopping at any time, and reduce your trips to do your shopping. Anyways, let's hope for a breakthrough for this ugly virus. The precautions seem to be changing every day. I have been staying in for the last month (except for a morning drive for a drive-through coffee) and will continue to do so because I am in the higher bracket of catching covid-19 due to age and a previous heart operation. Everyone just stay safe and stay inside more than you have been already. The experts all say that this will help.
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....Hospitals should have the right Hazmat suits ready for families so they can be with their loved ones one last time before they pass.....
It's not like there are extra hazmat suits just lying around. We're in the middle of a pandemic, giving a hazmat suit to an ICU visitor vs. a medical professional would be a complete misuse of limited resources. Hazmat suits are needed to save lives right now. It's a super unfortunate situation, but it's reality.
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....Hospitals should have the right Hazmat suits ready for families so they can be with their loved ones one last time before they pass.....
It's not like there are extra hazmat suits just lying around. We're in the middle of a pandemic, giving a hazmat suit to an ICU visitor vs. a medical professional would be a complete misuse of limited resources. Hazmat suits are needed to save lives right now. It's a super unfortunate situation, but it's reality.
My company owns suits and that could be repurposed for such use now that work is ground to a halt.
I guess you're right that there's a mask shortage right now, but seeing loved ones before they pass should be deemed a priority once we get more masks. It's important that we do our best not to forget about humanity and seeing our loved ones off before they pass is core to our values as people.
