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3/19/2020 9:54 am  #18


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

Marko_Mrko wrote:

I think the biggest concern with such a broad directive (ie close everything) is that we are at a very very early stage of the pandemic. At the same time, I would argue that there is absolutely ZERO risk to the population by backcountry camping in March (given so few people actually do it, and those that do are in very small groups)

If all goes to plan, this infection will be circulating at a low level in the community for the next year and longer (until vaccine available). If the social distancing is not as effective as hoped, the pandemic will peak in the summer months.

So I'm either case, we are at the very start of this. But now we have closed down everything. There is no question the infection burden in the population will be worse by May, and even worse by the summer.

So when there are 10000 cases in Canada on May 1st, will they open the backcountry?

I think your first sentence is the most important thing to remember. We are at the very very early stages of a serious pandemic. The drastic measures taken right now across the world aren't solely to try to eliminate the virus, it's to try and buy us time to build knowledge and data, which we currently lack. If the virus is here for a long time, every additional month of data is extremely beneficial. What is the real R0 value, which is the real CFR, what is the rate of reinfection and severity of symptoms, etc. Until we have more answers, we need to play things as safe as possible. Once we start to learn more about COVID-19, we can make more educated decisions on what level of social isolation is really necessary, what businesses can re-open, etc.

Canada is extremely fortunate to be a lagging country in the sense that we've been able to witness the viruses effects in China, Iran, Italy, and implement measures (hopefully) at an earlier stage than they were able to.



boknows wrote:

...I just heard today on TV that a prominent physician stated that should you catch this virus and then recover, your immune system would prevent you from getting it again.  I hope this is true, but to be honest, no one knows 100% what the months ahead will be like living in a coronavirus world.  
 

Just to clarify, normally if you overcome a virus and your body builds antibodies, you will become immune to reinfection. But as viruses spread they mutate, and if it mutates enough so that your body no longer recognizes it, then you can become infected again. This is the reason why there is no 100% effective flu vaccine. Best case scenario is we create a vaccine for COVID-19 before it mutates, so the vaccine is effective. Worst case scenario is the opposite happens and COVID-19 becomes a recurring virus.


Sorry for making this whole post about the virus and not really camping specific, but I think it's equally important to talk about the virus since it will influence the specific camping decisions made by every person here.


edit:

boknows wrote:

So if you are bored staying in and want to do something to help in our war against coronavirus, take up the challenge and help out health care workers who are looking after those infected.  And maybe even you in the future!

Agreed! The front line workers are legitimate heroes right now. The risks they're taking and exposing themselves to is a showcase of pure selflessness. They need to be recognized for the incredible work they're doing right now.
 

Last edited by trippythings (3/19/2020 9:57 am)


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3/19/2020 10:45 am  #19


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

Just saying that it is nice to have a civil discussion re Algonquin Park and the coronavirus without throwing anyone under the bus.  

On the plus side if there is one and on a lighter note, it is going to be +18C in Ottawa tomorrow and +11C in Algonquin Park with the chance of thunderstorms..  Bring it on!


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/19/2020 10:50 am  #20


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

boknows wrote:

Just saying that it is nice to have a civil discussion re Algonquin Park and the coronavirus without throwing anyone under the bus.  

Hopefully my posts didn't come across like that, I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone.


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3/19/2020 12:07 pm  #21


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

I think this is a great discussion, I am enjoying hearing everyone's thoughts and opinions.

I am looking forward to the early ice-out, too bad I'll spend the group opener on crown land instead of Algonquin.

I am curious to see whether they decide to open the parks for backcountry camping on May 1...

 

3/19/2020 12:12 pm  #22


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

If we have to take the entire season "off-Algonquin", it'll be a rough withdrawal for sure. But it'll hopefully be a chance to learn all those fancy knots, to explore local waterways and to get serious about physical conditioning. I'll keep telling myself all that, try to stay positive and hope we're all able to stay well!

 

3/19/2020 12:47 pm  #23


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

Yes, I agree Barry that it would be great to explore local waterways and I am looking forward to doing so.  In fact, I have it on my bucket list of things to do when I am 90 years old.  Hopefully, it doesn't come to fruition 20 years earlier.

Last edited by boknows (3/19/2020 12:49 pm)


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/19/2020 1:11 pm  #24


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

I have a great trip booked for mid may and have reluctantly accepted that it's not going to happen.  It's a bummer to accept we all cannot freely enjoy something that feels so pure and clean, but the reality is that this is going to get worse before it gets better. 

I look forward to the extra growth we will see in the great white north we all cherish and enjoy.  Over camped areas finally have their time to regenerate.  

 

3/19/2020 1:21 pm  #25


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

TripperMike wrote:

I have a great trip booked for mid may and have reluctantly accepted that it's not going to happen.  It's a bummer to accept we all cannot freely enjoy something that feels so pure and clean, but the reality is that this is going to get worse before it gets better. 

I look forward to the extra growth we will see in the great white north we all cherish and enjoy.  Over camped areas finally have their time to regenerate.  

Don't give up just yet TripperMike.  We should all stay positive until it actually happens.  After all, the information on this virus changes every hour or so.  I am still planning on tripping in early May.  Nothing wrong with planning (and hoping for a break through)!
 


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/19/2020 1:32 pm  #26


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

Plan for the worst, hope for the best and take what you get.

Many questions with too few answers for now...but time will provide enlightenment.  Fingers are crossed for paddling soon!

 

3/19/2020 1:57 pm  #27


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

PaPaddler wrote:

Plan for the worst, hope for the best and take what you get.

Many questions with too few answers for now...but time will provide enlightenment.  Fingers are crossed for paddling soon!

Good words PaPaddler.  If the worst comes to light, there is crown land for camping around Algonquin Park.  For more information, search on youtube for PineMartyn.  Some really neat videos re crown land camping.


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/20/2020 12:20 pm  #28


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

At least if nothing else, Algonquin will get a little bit "wilder" as there are less people coming through...?  Looking for any silver lining I can find these days.

 

3/20/2020 1:45 pm  #29


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

I figured this one would be contentious.  What about just declaring the parks not staffed?  Why lock gates?  Yes, rhetorical questions to some degree and yes I appreciate our concerns for the safety of park staff and first responders; but, there is also the fact that getting outside is good for us. And does this concern for safety also extend to your internet service providers?  What about mail delivery which is still ongoing?  Why force the garbage collectors to come to my door, drive through disposal at the landfill might be safer?  Is walking around the block where my neighbour was just coughing more or less dangerous social-distance wise than having to pump some gas to go for a hike?   Keep in mind droplets can last up to 3 hrs airborne.  

Should there not be more balance?  Ok ,TLDR i know.  I think the message from Parks should have been better and i think that some attention should be paid to context, not every park every where needs to be closed.

@PaPaddler:  Obviously don't intend to make people work or breathe air they don't want to.  But I think my posts are clear on that.  Keep in mind there are many who might want to be working not just for salary but because they love their job.  Same goes for Randy at Algonquin Outfitters or the gas station owner - they can open or not and I bet they would prefer the option to close or to find ways to continue operating safely (though I don't want to pretend to speak for anyone).



 

 

3/20/2020 2:55 pm  #30


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

No offense - we're navigating strange new waters without a map.  Some people would freak out under those circumstances and some would be all-in! 

I think I'd prefer to have a government criticized for acting uber-safe as opposed to apologizing for all the people who might have died unnecessarily...but both options suck!

 

3/20/2020 4:07 pm  #31


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

perhaps asking the real park owners for permission to travel this spring might work,, after all it is their land right?  

 

3/21/2020 6:01 am  #32


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

Gordk; there could be a huge problem with "just declaring the parks not staffed", and that's that with such an easy to access park, it could be overrun with yahoos going there to party out of sight or mind of the police, with the requisite empty beer cans, chopped down trees, and out of control fires.
not to mention the strain on emergency services, when those same idiots need rescue...

 

3/21/2020 10:35 am  #33


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

Swede.....thinking out of the box again eh???

Scoutergriz.....With all due respect, what you have stated above has been going on for years in Algonquin Park when it was staffed with many workers.  For me, whether or not the Park is staffed is not the problem.  The problem is how to open the park safely with some new rules and regulations to protect the public who wish to avail themselves of Algonquin for their health and mind.  

What I would like to see eventually is the closing of all campgrounds as it is now, closing all offices to prevent them from contacting this virus, allowing outfitters (with some kind of addenum like I have stated below) to open if they wish, have a way of getting a permit for interior camping (online or self serve stations) with an addendum that states you will not sue anyone should you contact this virus, and practice all safety protocols now in effect,   There is always a risk in anything you do, but you take (and have taken) this risk many times when you have interior camped or done any other activity that you enjoy doing.

Just thinking out of the box like Swede.  Somehow, we must find a way of living again.  And the sooner the better.

Last edited by boknows (3/21/2020 10:56 am)


CAMPING IS WHEN YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO LIVE LIKE A HOMELESS PERSON!
 

3/21/2020 10:59 am  #34


Re: Algonquin Park Closed till at least April 30

Let's admit that in the coming months our social safety net is going to become stretched, both the hospitals and first-responders. The prospects of no wardens to patrol the backcountry, of no portage maintenance, of no campsite repairs, of campers falling sick in the backcountry, of no rescue of injured campers, of undisciplined "yahoos" rampant in the backcountry, of overtaxed fire-crews in the backcountry .. well the prospects could easily get pretty glum quite quickly. 

Instead, a regular program of park staff and police checking for unauthorized cars pulled off along Highway 60 and the access roads will certainly reduce the potential for "misadventure".

So please let's not think that any foxy cleverness will let us stretch the new rules. Let's do our best to stay healthy and safe for another day, eh?

 

Board footera

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