You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/12/2020 8:48 am

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

I agree you can manipulate both the numbers applicable to Covid 19 and the flu. I am sorry now I made the comparison as it takes away from what I was trying to get at. The COVID 19 deaths and COVID 19 patients taking up ICU beds are no were near the numbers the health professional experts were expecting and I feel that as a result we can open up businesses, parks etc. I am worried about the future standard of living for my kids and grand kids if we keep this up to long.

Anyway everyone has to make up their own mind. Some might still feel they have to stay home I am going for my 1½ hour walk and after that get the canoe out of storage. Probably do some canoeing next week.

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/11/2020 5:17 pm

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

@Mulder

Can you please supply we with links to these “MAY health agencies, epidemiologists and studies”
TIA

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/11/2020 3:31 pm

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

@Mulder
The fact is they never had enough test kits to test for the corona virus. Especially during the beginning of the outbreak. This was a worldwide problem. In March, people without a suspect travel history in Canada, who were sick, had the symptoms and were expecting they were infected they were send home, told to isolate but were never tested. As a result they are not included in the confirmed numbers. They still only perform a limited amount of tests.

Governments in other countries wanting to know the real scope of the infections and death rates performed random street tests. These tests on the low end indicated ( This one was done weeks ago in the Netherlands so by now the numbers are higher. ) a 4% infection rate. BTW as far as I know Canada still has not approved this (blood) test they use for this.

I can also come up with a higher death rate for the flu. If you like to go with the confirmed deaths that start out as flu, turn into pneumonia and then result in death is 8000 per year in Canada. This would give a death rate of at least 14.5%.

Anyway all beside the point I was trying to make. At the moment people are presented with these high death rates while in reality they are no were near the +/-7% the official numbers suggest. Most likely they are around 0.175%.

Another interesting bit of information about new York. New York Gov. Cuomo actually mandated early on during the outbreak that nursing homes take on Covid 19 patients….That’s why they have sky high number of deaths in their Nursing homes.

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/11/2020 9:30 am

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

Q steve:

I agree. Social distancing yes but staying indoors for months not getting much exercise and no sun is the worst thing to do physically and mentally.

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/11/2020 9:22 am

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

@ Mulder:

For the official Canadian Influenza numbers: https://ipac-canada.org/influenza-resources.php

So if you would go with the absolute lowest number of annual deaths (500) and take the year with the highest number of cases (55059) you would get a death rate of over 0.9%. Now if you would use the number of annual deaths (8000) due to the combined, influenza and pneumonia deaths, which is a common complication of influenza, the death rate would be much higher.

Now I would not look at the New York numbers as they initially didn’t impose any restrictions and then after they realized things were already totally out of control did…..

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/10/2020 7:58 pm

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

At rgcmce:
I listed the numbers from that report to indicate were the biggest problem is/most casualties are. Only by knowing the facts can we find a solution.

In my original message I indicated the following:

“If we would put all our efforts into protecting these groups of people than we really could just open up everything where social distancing can be realized.”

Don’t really see how suggesting “we put all our efforts into protecting these groups etc” suggest I am downplaying any deaths unless you desperately want to read that into it somehow I guess.

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/10/2020 5:31 pm

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

At rgcmce,

I find your suggestion that I find anybody at any age or condition expandable very offensive.

Nowhere do I indicate that. I state (fact) where the most casualties of the virus are and as a result what the best way forward would/could be.

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/10/2020 5:18 pm

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

Hi Barry.
I think your approach is the right one. I am sure that on your walks you practise social distancing so your risk is minimum.

I also agree that a general statement that everyone 70 years and over should stay home is offensive.
I think people can be responsible so that people at higher risk, either due to age or underlying conditions, of needing hospitalization when getting infected will protect themselves by minimizing contact with the general public by means of social distancing. I think people got the message…..

For people who are still employed and who are at higher risk due to underlying conditions and are not able to practice social distancing due to the nature of their job we might have to come up with a solution until a vaccine is available. Maybe we should make EI available to them until the vaccine is available or arrange alternative employment. All other people should be able to get back to work ASAP?

So making it Algonquin related. Again I see no reason why not to open up all parks.

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/10/2020 2:50 pm

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

Not sure why you would take offence? I am suggesting more effort to protecting the more vulnerable and still for everybody ells to socially distance themselves while opening up the economy etc. At least, as a society, we will be able to come out at the other end of this with some kind of standard of living and not totally destroy our economy.

Personally I am also getting up there in age so probably are at more risk than others. Knowing that I protect myself accordingly. If I protect myself than there is no reason why people who are not at risk ( Or not as much at risk as me.) should not be able to go out and enjoy themselves because I am at more risk? Would be a little selfish I would say.

Just read an other report stating that out of all deaths in Ontario only about 200 where outside of retirement/long term care facilities. That is about 1 person in 75000…..

Now if you are still active you are probably in good shape so have basically nothing to fear.

Trip Planning » Ontario to reopen provincial parks for day use starting Monday » 5/10/2020 9:43 am

LeoV
Replies: 44

Go to post

The goal of the restrictions was, is, and should be to make sure our healthcare system can handle the number of people that need hospitalization/an ICU unit. The number of cases and deaths are way lower than any of the models shown to us at the beginning of April. Also there are way more hospital beds and ICU units open at this point than was predicted. As a result there is absolutely no reason not to open up a lot of business where it will be no problem to practice social distancing.

Also the majority of all deaths are residents of nursing and old age homes. The remainder of deaths most likely are also older people ( Over 65? ) and people who are either obese, are diabetic, have hart problems, or have lung problems. Yes there will be some exceptions.

If we would put all our efforts into protecting these groups of people than we really could just open up everything where social distancing can be realizes.

In a number of countries they have done random street blood tests to find out the percentage of people who already have anti bodies and the number varies form 4 to 40%. The result is that the actual cases are many multiples of the official confirmed cases. If you would go with the 4% and apply it to Ontario than that would mean there most likely are actually already about 600000 cases in Ontario resulting in a death rate of 0.175%. This is a lower death rate than the yearly flu.

The only thing that makes the Corona virus different is that it is new to us and as a result no one, before this started, had any anti bodies. 100% of the population ( Until there is a vaccine ) would/will potentially get sick and as a result we will have to protect the most vulnerable.

Talk to RN’s they will tell you they have never seen the hospitals so empty.

Anyway I see no reason at this point not to open up parks as long as people will stick to social distancing and yes there will have to be protocols in place for washroom/shower facilities.
 

Ethics » Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise » 7/18/2018 9:02 am

LeoV
Replies: 58

Go to post

I have to agree with DW. Unless there is specific information about Algonquin park in these articles they do not belong on this forum IMO. Info about the PC government trying to clean up the irresponsible spending of the Lib government IMO does not belong here. If anybody would have run their household like the libs did the province we would all be bankrupt but again this discussion is for an other forum.

Trip Planning » Big Porcupine Lake » 2/23/2017 7:34 pm

LeoV
Replies: 7

Go to post

Have a look in the PCI section of the website. Lots of BP camp sites listed there.

LeoV

Wildlife » robins all over my region!!! » 1/25/2017 9:57 am

LeoV
Replies: 1

Go to post

I travelled from the London area to Ottawa area twice over the last couple of weeks and noticed big flocks of Canada geese flying north…..Not sure if this is normal but found it odd?
LeoV

Board footera

LNT Canada is a national non-profit organization dedicated to promoting responsible outdoor recreation through education, research and partnerships.