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6/10/2018 8:32 am  #1


Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

In view of the recent reports of trashed campsites in the APP interior, it'll be interesting to see whether the new PC majority government holds to their campaign promises. These have been called "extremely naive" and "clueless":by the press and the former Environmental Commissioner of Ontario Gord Miller but we'll see. 

Part of the reason for the negative criticism is that $500 million is a ridiculously small amount to apply to environmental issues generally, into which parks clean-up, waterways protection and conservation officers have been lumped (COs normally deal with resource issues,not environment, but that does show something about how the PCs see things). 

From the PC's campaign plan promises:

We will:

Keep Ontario beautiful by protecting and preserving our waterways and supporting and enforcing our air quality programs.

Improve enforcement, including hiring more conservation officers and increasing policing of major polluters.

Set up an emissions-reduction fund to invest in new technologies to reduce emissions right here in Ontario.

Clean up our communities: Commit resources to reduce garbage in our neighbourhoods and parks.
 

What this will cost:

Creating a Cleaner Ontario – Combined cost of all initiatives is $500 million over mandate.


https://www.ontariopc.ca/plan_for_the_people

Didn't want to post this before the election since it's political but this is how things evolve to create change. If the PCs don't act on their promises, on the ground, they should be held accountable.

PS sidenote.... Green party promises included a ban on logging In APP, in accordance with ECO Gord Miller's recommendations several years ago. Mike Schreiner's single seat (Guelph riding) in Queen's Park might result in some additional initiatives being taken to the public, but Doug Ford's majority government is certain to oppose it, unless there's strong public support to convince him otherwise.

https://gpo.ca/2014/10/07/greens-call-for-ban-on-logging-in-algonquin/
 

Last edited by frozentripper (6/10/2018 8:38 am)

 

6/10/2018 11:59 am  #2


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

In view of your recent comments , I'd  suggest you review the forum rules .
"Promoting political parties or platforms "   ...... Is NOT welcome on this forum !!!!!
You mention trashed campsites, you can thank y Bob Rae fer that one .
The  Winter fishing allowed by Indians on their traditional Indian territory , using traditional skidoos and buckets of minnows......... will be Bob Rae's everlasting ethical legacy to the stewardship of Algonquin Park . 

Ya mention that Green lad down there in Guelph.
Up here in the Valley.
John Yakabuski PC MPP fer the riding that actually includes Algonquin Park and the surrounding economy , for the fith consecutive election , has recieved an overwhelming majority . He and his predecessor Sean Conway Lib MPP have long supported the real lives of people that live Algonquin everday .
Good Luck with that there Green intiative  Rick , it may work in Guelph , but ya may have a challenge on yer hands convincing some of those hardworking Polish lads in Killaloe , Barry's Bay and Whitney ....... Eh ! 

Last edited by John Connelly (6/15/2018 6:22 pm)

 

6/11/2018 7:15 am  #3


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Hey John, glad you wrote in again to get that topic off your chest.

"Promoting political parties or platforms "   ...... Is NOT welcome on this forum !!!!!

It's nothing of the kind... discussions on campsite littering and damage have been going on here for a long time, and how government deals with that is relevant (eg. past elimination of the park rangers with spending cuts). The problem might be getting worse and the promises that Doug Ford and the PCs have been making might indicate a change in policy for the better.. Or not, if you remember how quickly he flip-flopped on developing the established no-development Oak Ridges Moraine green belt between Barrie and Toronto. Once Ford realizes how little money has been promised for environmental matters, those promises could be forgotten, and readers here who have had complaints could be interested why.  

Ford's promised reductions in government spending are also relevant.... he's made it clear that everything will be examined and an already-stretched MNRF parks staff and services may be cut. Contracting out and privatization have also been a PC initiative.The feds under Trudeau will be watching and if there are cuts that could be harmful, there may be new taxes or reductions in transfers of some kind. All very uncertain since Doug Ford and PCs are pretty much clueless about government operations and how money's being spent on these issues and there's more news to come, I'm sure.

Anybody here that's offended by this information on government policy can complain, still, others might want to know if and why APP's being badly managed and what to do about it.

Gotta go, cheers.

     Thread Starter
 

6/11/2018 10:02 am  #4


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Yer slinging arrows there lad at the wrong party . In case ya haven't noticed , Doug Ford will be sworn in as Premier of Ontario on June 29th .
Yer concerns of the management of Algonquin Park belong on the Liberal cutting block , after all they did have 15 years .


" they should be held accountable "

Well there Rick , I do believe the people of Ontario have spoken clearly , and have held the Liberal Government accountable , and now belong where they should be , an unofficial party in Ontario .
You keep that Green Dream alive there lad , and we'll chat in a few years .
If ya think logging in Algonquin Park will be banned as ya wish , under the Ford Nation Majority , yer sadly mistaken there lad !

 

Last edited by John Connelly (6/15/2018 6:23 pm)

 

6/11/2018 7:06 pm  #5


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Lenny .... Interesting to read of yer recent travels through the riding of Renfrew- Nipissing - Pembroke , it is certainly reflective of a rich cultural heritage that has existed long before Algonquin became a park 125 yrs ago .

 

6/12/2018 8:36 am  #6


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

I've been away from the forum for a couple of days. Pondering how a change in government might impact the state of the park certainly isn't 'promoting a political party'. Nor is soliciting a new government to make good on a promise. Please let's keep the park and our responsible use of it foremost in our minds.

 

6/12/2018 11:48 am  #7


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Thank-you Barry , for your interpretation of that rule , however I respectfully strongly disagree with you on this point .
It appears the rules have changed , and I look forward to engaging in further discussions with those that post and promote POLITICAL parties , such as the Green Party whose PLATFORM is to ban logging in Algonquin Park .
In this unique mult-use park , I continue to be very responsible in it's use , and have also lived first hand , it's rich cultural logging history .

Rick , your use of derogatory cartoons in an attempt to support your view ....... only helps to strengthen our resolve , I thank-you for that Rick !

[Moderator edit: Post of degogatory cartoon being referenced was deleted in keeping with forum rules.]

 

6/12/2018 4:07 pm  #8


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Had to keep an afternoon appointment shortly after my earlier post in this thread. Now that I'm back, I'm having a more critical look at the thread as it relates to the related forum rules which are ...

16. not overtly promote specific political parties or platforms.
18. not initiate, invite or provoke discussion of controversial social or political issues not related to Algonquin Park.

The discussion of political "issues" related to Algonquin Park are not prohibited. It's the overt promotion of specific political parties or platforms that are prohibited.

With this framework in mind, we can definitely have a civilized discussion of social and political issues related to the park.

We're having a change in provincial government, and thereby probably its policies and services. Our related hopes, anticipations and reactions related to Algonquin Park are fair fodder for discussion. It's the overt promotion of parties or platforms that'll cause a problem.

Accordingly, I'll be pruning/editing some of the thread's posts.

 

6/12/2018 5:13 pm  #9


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Thank-you Barry .
We all have our bias formed by our individual experiences as it relates to Algonquin Park and it's multiple use .
Rick has clearly stated his as I have mine , we know where each other stands.
After all these years of discussion here ... on the old forum , and the ABR forum , I'm still not clear on what yer bias might be, after all you do have one Barry .
It appears to me , your interpretation of the forum rules that thankfully you put in place , are not so clear at times .

8) Debate and/or presentation of overtly "anti-" and/or "pro-" logging sentiments is not acceptable on this forum. However, posting about specific logging-related activities (such as the logging museum, harvesting locations, haulage routes, individual instances, information venues) are acceptable.

My issue  is with the ps. comment slipped in there at the end of Rick's first post.
This may seem an insignificant and bothersome point to address .
Clarity on the rules is all I'm askin , and if the the interpretation of those rules have changed , please let us know .
I'm open fer all discussion on the Anti Logging topic .

[Moderator edit: Expectation 8: Debate and/or presentation of overtly "anti-" and/or "pro-" logging sentimentss not acceptable on this forum. ]

 

6/13/2018 7:06 am  #10


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Barry, your clarification on this board's principles will be valuable for information-gathering purposes moving forward, I'm sure.

APP is within a day's drive of 40 million potential visitors, receives close to a million visitors each year, and since Ontario parks are by law "dedicated to the people", there's some overlap with Doug Ford's campaign promises that were made "for the people". Just how real and relevant those promises turn out to be for the people of Ontario remains to be seen so interesting to watch how all this works out in terms of reality on the ground.

PS... just another heads-up  while I'm at it and which you're no doubt already aware of... this year, 2018, is the year that a review of APP's management plan is due so there may well be some news surfacing on this issue. Public consultation and reference to the Environmental Bill of Rights that's available, should be made public and no doubt there'll be some developments on that front. Let the people be heard.

A formal environmental assessment in developing the new plan has been suggested and that's another thing to watch for as time goes on and new info comes in.

So, time goes on, evolution moves forward.... cheers.

 

Last edited by frozentripper (6/13/2018 7:31 am)

     Thread Starter
 

6/13/2018 9:26 am  #11


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

I agree Rick , let the people be heard . They sure will be heard , as I think five term veteran MPP John Yakabuski will certainly have the ear of Doug Ford.
An exerpt from the AFA website , which is also helpful to know when discussing such a topic .

" There are over 300 people employed in Algonquin woods activities and over 3,000 people employed in the mills.  With approximately 3 indirect jobs created for every direct job in the forest industry, over 8,000 additional jobs are created from sustainable forest management in Algonquin Park.

In 2015/2016, sales values of forest products by the Algonquin Forestry Authority were $20.6 million.  Contractors engaged from communities in the region were paid $19 million, and the AFA had a net income of $ 650,000.  The AFA is financially self-sufficient with no cost to the taxpayers.

Based on a 2015/2016 harvest level of 423,641 m3, the Algonquin Park Forest contributed $356 million to the Ontario economy in terms of value added. "

Rick an open invitation to ya lad , hows about you Barry and I , meet up fer Loggers Day at the Algonquin Park Logging Museum , and afterwards go fer an evening paddle and together..... enjoy the wondrous beauty of Algonquin .

Ps...... I'll even bring the shore lunch , on my drive down , I'll stop off at the Wilno Tavern and pick up some traditional Polish food enjoyed in the area ..... Perogies , Cabbage rolls and Kielbasa sandwiches !
My original offering of a shore lunch of bologna sandwiches , was edited by Barry this morning  , I consider them a treat and as a young lad it was a staple along with salt pork and at times powdered milk .

Last edited by John Connelly (6/15/2018 7:04 pm)

 

6/13/2018 5:03 pm  #12


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

John Connelly wrote:

" In 2015/2016, sales values of forest products by the Algonquin Forestry Authority were $20.6 million.  Contractors engaged from communities in the region were paid $19 million, and the AFA had a net income of $ 650,000.  The AFA is financially self-sufficient with no cost to the taxpayers."
 

HAHA! Can you imagine if Algonquin logging was taxpayer subsidized! My god what an embarrassment that we be- it's embarrassing enough as it is that this degree of logging is allowed. It never crossed my mind that something like that COULD be subsidized, how ridiculous. I'm a bit alarmed that AFA is so proud that they're self sufficient.

 

6/13/2018 5:43 pm  #13


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Nvm ...... It may be embarrassing to you . fair enough .
As Barry has now allowed this discussion to move forward , I embrace it , I think it only fair that all views and opinions be allowed , so that facts from both sides of the discussion  can be talked about , in hope that the many readers of this forum and others , can formulate an opinion and express it by participating in our singular most powerful privilege ...... the privilege to vote .
The people of Ontario , including those that hold 8000 jobs in the surrounding forestry related Algonquin Park economy , have clearly exercised that priviledge. 

Algonquin Park is one of the many treasured jewels of Canada shared by many with varing degrees of interest for it's protection for the future .
Over the years  there's not one logger , fisherman  , naturalist, paddler , forester , indigenous friend or Conservation Officer that I've met in Algonquin Park ..... that doesn't share one common passion .
That has always been a sense to protect this special place .
 I believe... with all that many have worked hard to do ,  Algonquin Park is fine shape fer future generations .
Bit of a rant ...... but I do think it healthy fer all to discuss their passions fer Algonquin Park


PS.... Yer more that welcome ta join us at the Logging Days celebration , just add yer name ta the list and I'm sure we'll have a fine time  , ...... Eh !
 

Last edited by John Connelly (6/13/2018 6:52 pm)

 

6/13/2018 7:42 pm  #14


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

I'll say this as essentially an outsider so take it how you will.

John Connelly wrote:

My issue  is with the ps. comment slipped in there at the end of Rick's first post.

I would think questioning how tripper's p.s. fits the rules would be more convincing if you didn't start trashing other political parties (and I appologize if it was just sarcasm between friends).  But either way, Barry runs the board (and from my occasional visits has done a solid job of it) so his interpretation is likely the one that matters most.


On the topic of the OP, I'm not too hopeful of seeing much in the way of change or funding from any political party in the near future.  I've seen the Ford city administration close up, I would expect him to cut rather than spend anything unless (hopefully) his Central Ontario MPPs somehow get his ear.

Last edited by keg (6/13/2018 7:44 pm)

 

6/13/2018 9:18 pm  #15


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Keg ... no blame to yerself at all , as it was deleted earlier .
In regards to this thread , and the" bashing "of political parties, you may not have seen the derogatory political cartoon posted and deleted  earlier .
If you consider it bashing , please tell me , what exactly did  I say that wasn't based on fact or any less opinion than what Rick has stated ?
I know I'm on and island here on this forum when it comes to this discussion and I have the highest regard for Barry over the years of participating on this forum , not an easy place to be , peace keeper , forum owner and recreationalist . I also think it reasonable to respectfully disagree , as we have over the years .
With Algonquin Park being such a high commodity in recreational and lumber industry dollars , I'm of the belief , with the management of it's entirety , Algonquin Park is in good hands , whatever yer politics .
It makes fer fun discussion though ... EH ?
And it's not too late Keg , can I sign ya up fer the Logging Days festivities ? It's goin ta be a blast !
 

 

6/14/2018 6:29 am  #16


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

John. I would love to be there for the meeting, unfortunately, things are very busy and that's going to be beating out any opportunity to be in the park. As an alternative, how about we all attend a Green Party rally in support of APP protection instead... jest kidding.

Seriously. it might be time well spent to attend the public consultations that are likely to be scheduled when the park plan is being reviewed and meet up at that time. Cheers, have fun.

Keg, cuts are likely since Ford promised a 4% cut in government spending on services... the big spending issues with health care, education, law enforcement, industrial development, housing, etc. are going to get most of the attention and the more minor ones may be delayed or forgotten. JMO but we'll see. Letters written to the minister can be effective, I've had to answer on behalf of past MNR ministers myself and they are taken seriously, if written properly. 

     Thread Starter
 

6/14/2018 9:01 am  #17


Re: Doug Ford's "clean up our parks" promise

Just a reminder to everyone that one of the key expectations of the forum is that ... 

3) This forum's public discussions are not a venue for "ongoing personal-chit-chat", for "chronicling daily activities" or for "extended and/or detailed planning of social events". The forum's 'Personal Messages" feature, emailing or social networking websites are the appropriate online venues in which to pursue those needs.

Should an Algonquin Park event be scheduled, it can be initially announced on the forum. However, planning such as individual invitations, responses and details should be pursued by either personal message or email.

 

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