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Hi all! Hope everyone's winter is going well. I'm looking for some advice on purchasing my first canoe. A little info about me and my tripping...
My wife and I interior trip through algonquin. More lakes then rivers and more small lakes then big lakes. We usually rent through one of the outfitters on the west side of the park. They have always had Scott canoes but have recently added swifts to their fleet and I must say I do prefer the swift over the Scott. my budget is maxed at about $1,600.
Any advice is greatly appreciated. Length, weight, make, model, where to look to purchase, keel vs no keel ect..
Thanks all
Cheers
Ken
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See my ad is swap and sell. I can send you pics and open to offers. Super light . The swifts are great boats too though
.
Last edited by Shayne74 (3/11/2017 11:08 am)
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Hey shayne74! Yes I saw your post but feel the boat is a little long for just the two of us no?
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We tandem trip primarily. Enjoy the extra space.
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Foxriderz wrote:
the boat is a little long for just the two of us no?
There's always a trade-off.
Length: Because a canoe is a displacement hull, the longer it is, the faster it's theoretical top speed is. Most of us will never paddle hard enough to reach that "on paper" top speed of course and the Coleman Scanoe� breaks that rule by getting the canoe up on a plane. The longer a canoe is, the more weight it can carry. Touring canoes are ideally 16 to 18 feet long and easily accommodate two people and a weeks worth of gear. They can also easily accommodate a family of four and a weekend worth of equipment.The longer a canoe is the more difficult it is to control, especially if you are solo. A 17 foot long touring canoe can be a beast for a solo paddler on a windy day. As it is with larger canoes, the longer they are, the harder they become to steer. If you are paddling on a difficult course with a fast current (which due to terrain could still be considered Class I or Class II-) you may have a very challenging time. This is especially true of mid-western rivers. On flat water however, a long canoe is a pleasure as the length of the hull allows the canoe to track straight, and does not require as many corrections.Shorter canoes are much easier to maneuver, and are better suited for solo paddlers. Canoes can be as short as 10' and are good for short jaunts, day trips, and whitewater adventures. Much easier to steer, shorter canoes typically don't track as well, and require a lot of correction to keep on a straight course in flat water. A novice paddler can find themselves zigzagging across a lake in frustration.A good length for a general purpose canoe is 14 to 15 feet. This canoe will easily accommodate two people, but can be paddled solo. It can be taken into whitewater, but could be pressed into a weekend trip. It also has a good balance of maneuverability and straight line performance.
Source:
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I think for anyone to give you a good answer they would need a little more info about you?
Range of length of your trips ?
Do you pack light,heavy or somewhere in between?
How much do you and your paddling partner weigh combined ?
Do you bring a dog ? If so how much does it weigh?
What are your most important considerations? Weight? durability? Cost? Etc
I will say this..buying a good used canoe will be much cheaper in the long run. I bought a used Mattawa 3 years ago from an older guy who had paddled it only twice. Paid about 1/2 of what it would be new. I'm contemplating upgrading next year to a Keewaydin 16 Combi and I would likely be able to get close to what I paid for the Mattawa to put towards the new boat.
So 4 years of almost free canoe rentals in a nicier boat than what most outfitters would have given me over that time.
I would suggest using the alert feature on Kijiji for canoes that come up in your area. The real good ones are gone very fast, usually in a day or 2.
Last edited by ShawnD (3/12/2017 7:28 am)
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Dave, thank you very much for the detailed response and the link to the source. Lots of good advice there.
Shawn, hmm a little more about me eh? I enjoy long walks on a sunset beach...lol! Ok serious now, trips range from 3-7 days. Pack as light as possible. (Two people, two packs). Combined weight of my wife and I is about 290lbs. Her pack is usually around 35-40lbs and mine comes in at 55-60lbs. I single trip every portage, hate doubling. No dog but could see one a not to distant future (border collie size) my most important considerations would be weight and cost. The alert feature on kijiji is a fabulous idea. Yes the good ones do go fast. I was trying to get my hands on an algonquin 16 gold fusion but it sold in just over 24 hrs.
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So Ken your specs are almost identical to mine. My wife is my most common paddling partner too. Us and 2 bags. Single portages. Maybe 400 lbs in the canoe and with only the 2 bags we don't need a lot of space either.
The Mattawa has a top end optimal load range of 525 so we are always well below that. I find her very stable and quick enough for us although I wouldn't call it fast. Only trouble with it is when my wife isn't paddling with me. My best friend for example outweighs her by 100 lbs. I'm then at the top end of optimal weight. Still ok but not ideal.
If you really only paddle with your wife I would go shorter and lighter. Couldn't go wrong with a 16 ft Prospector. I like Swift too but I wouldn't restrict myself to that brand.
I would add that the 40lbs of the canoe Shayne has listed even being a bit longer might be hard to beat at your price point. That's pretty light.
Set the alert and wait. Happy shopping and good luck.
Last edited by ShawnD (3/12/2017 1:24 pm)
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Hey all,
I am almost dead set on purchasing a used Souris River Quetico from an outfitter this fall.
However, I cannot decide on what length I should be looking at 16ft or 17ft. My trips will be a mix of mainly 2-4 nights. I generally try to keep my portages down to single carry. But in spring fishing the guys I go with will likely be double carries.
I liked the quetico when we rented it this past spring (16ft). It was nice and light to carry and felt very stable in some choppy water on Ralph Bice.
If anyone has any other suggestions (ie: a swift model that AO will likely be selling in the fall) I am all ears to that as well.
Cheers
(Not trying to hijack a thread I just sidnt want to start another new topic).
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Hey 85,
I can't really address your 16 v. 17 feet question, as it's been a while since I paddled a 16 footer. I have a 17' quetico and it has served us well for tandem and family tripping (now we take two canoes as kids are bigger). I used to worry about its durability, but now I don't. It's a solid craft.
Personally I feel like the 17 gives you more flex in event you get a dog (or kid!) down the road, but maybe it comes down to what's available at the outfitter. I can say that soloing the 17 footer (backwards) is not fun if there's any sort of wind. Don't know if it would be any different in a 16 footer.
Good luck!
Fred
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Hey 85,
I can't really address your 16 v. 17 feet question, as it's been a while since I paddled a 16 footer. I have a 17' quetico and it has served us well for tandem and family tripping (now we take two canoes as kids are bigger). I used to worry about its durability, but now I don't. It's a solid craft.
Personally I feel like the 17 gives you more flex in event you get a dog (or kid!) down the road, but maybe it comes down to what's available at the outfitter. I can say that soloing the 17 footer (backwards) is not fun if there's any sort of wind. Don't know if it would be any different in a 16 footer.
Good luck!
Fred
Thanks for the reply and the input Fred. Much appreciated.
I have a dog, but I don't take her interior with me.
I have a wife, but she's not too interested in going interior with me.
I have 2 young girls (4 & 2) which I would like to take interior with me at some point.
I don't plan on doing much/if any solo tripping with this boat; if I decide to go that route, I think I would likely rent a pack boat.
I suppose my decision will be left to what is available from the outfitter, but I think if available I'll be going with the 17ft.
Cheers!
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Hi Breed,
We just purchased a 17' Quetico from Souris River this spring. We've only had it out about a half dozen times so my experience with it is limited.
The most challenging aspect has been revealed in a small, quite tortuous creek in the New Jersey Pine Barrens we did. It was challenging getting such a long boat to maneuver through some of the tight twists and turns of the creek compared to the two kayaks we were with. It was expected, since the Q17 tracks so well in large flatwater, that it is certainly less maneuverable in twisting confines but this was an extreme example which we would rarely ever expect to see again. That said, it did perform well enough; we just had to pry and draw our way around the tightest spots.
Gear-wise and capacity, the Q17 cannot be beaten. It has a TON of room for your stuff and, compared to many 16' canoes I've paddled over the years, it is likely a little more than needed. If your trips are less than one week and you desire a single carry amount of gear a 16' would easily fit the bill and provide better maneuverability in twisting rivers and streams, without compromising too much on seaworthiness in big water with a well-balanced load.
Quality-wise, you will be happy. We went with the Le Tigre green kevlar and it is a beautiful piece of work that is lightweight as well (just over 40 lbs., if I'm not mistaken). The lines and design are excellent.
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Thanks Pa.
I got back from a recent trip down the Tim... The last part of the Tim before Rosebary is quite twisty and we were in a 16ft prospector. It was alot of prying and drawing. However, I'm not above saying that my canoe strokes could use some refinement with more practice 
.
For the few times I would actually be doing any river tripping, I'm sure I could put up with a 17ft.
However, I think a 16ft would more than provide enough space for gear (I tend to pack on the "lighter side" (I don't bring everything and the kitchen sink)).
I was liking the idea of additional speed and stability with the 17fter.
I feel like a yo-yo on this; going back and forth between the 2 options in my mind!
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Another data point: I have an 18.5ft Quetico with the 3rd seat. It fits us 2 adults and 2 kids (they share the middle seat which is quite wide) and pretty much as much gear as we could ever dream of bringing (I only ever dream of bringing less gear). I think on one trip, when the kids were smaller, we had 3 or 4 kids on the 3rd seat. Now that the kids are a bit older we bring less gear, but the 3rd seat is great. When I was a kid I had to bake on the bottom of our aluminum canoe. My kids are spoiled.
I've taken this canoe on some pretty light trips with only one other person up some windy rivers. It's more work to steer, but most of the time we're just traveling on a lake.
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I can't pretend to be the most experienced or capable with my canoeing, but maybe I can help here a little bit. I have spent quality time in 15, 16, and 17' canoes. 17 can get a little tiresome when it is a day filled with S-curves. For two people, I like 16. There's enough space, it is versatile over the broader set of conditions you face, and even though it isn't an enormous difference with today's lightweight canoes, there is a weight difference. But the real reason I'm writing is to suggest that if you get the opportunity to paddle both - one right after the other - that will settle it for you I think. I don't think it is a bad analogy to say it is like putting on two shoes of the same style but different size. One jumps out at you, and the decision is made. 'These are the kinds of issues that plague me in a decision, I hope I'm not the only one. Moments when I'm laying some real cash, really want the right decision, then I get focused on one aspect of it, it worries me, and fills me with indecision. I drive me nuts sometimes.
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