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4/09/2017 8:45 am  #1


Solo Canoes/Packboats?

I guess it's time I consulted this forum on the subject of solo boats. Yesterday I went to the Swift event at Trailhead here in Ottawa. I was interested in checking out their pack boats to see if this could actually be the right solution for my solo tripping needs. They were offering in stock boats $300 off and any that were ordered that day would be $200 off so it seemed like a pretty good deal to take advantage of. Unfortunately I walked away empty handed, mostly because it's still a lot of money, but also because I just can't figure out which configuration will suit me best.

I am definitely drawn to the Swift line of solo boats and have test paddled the Keewaydin 15 and test-tripped the Osprey last year. The problem I had was with the removable yoke (which I ended up forgetting at the last campsite and had to shell out another $80 for -- but that's another story). I could not find a way to position it so that I could carry my canoe pack at the same time. In addition it wasn't a good shape for my neck and shoulders and mostly ended up biting into my shoulder blades even when carried alone. I brought this issue up yesterday talking to Bill Swift, who said many clients will replace the bolts with longer ones and install spacers on the underside of the yoke to provide more clearance. Sounds like it would work, though it will set the boat up higher when carrying which suggests it would be harder to control while carrying. I presume a rope affixed to bow and stern thwarts would sufficiently offset this issue though still not as convenient as simply holding a thwart or the gunnels for balancing. Anyone have experience with this?

The bigger question though concerns the solo canoe versus pack boat debate raging in my head. On the one hand I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to canoes. I absolutely love canoes and could wax poetic about them for paragraphs on end but will spare you. And of course a big part of the joy of canoes surrounds their handling with a single blade paddle--that's where the skill element comes in and the real joy of paddling. On the flip side I'd be a fool to ignore the increased efficiency one gets with a kayak paddle. And these pack boats have a MUCH MUCH more comfortable sitting position! There's just no denying that at all. But when I spoke to these guys about using a standard canoe paddle with the pack boat seat it was clear this wasn't the desirable option as the lower position and automatic centering in the boat doesn't allow you to shift your weight as you normally would for comfortable and stable single-blade paddling. They did speak of a combi seat that would allow both positions but I wasn't able to see it. Also it adds another $500 to the already high price tag. And of course, really I have no experience yet paddling the pack boats so I don't know for sure I would like them even with a double blade. But they certainly look great for this.

Anyway, this year I want to try out some different pack boats and stack them against the regular solos. Specifically it seems I'm most orienting to the Keewaydin 14. However, I see online (You Tube vids, trip logs) where various paddlers seem to be tripping successfully through the Park interior with the Adirondack Pack 13.6. When I asked the Swift guys about this they definitely said it wasn't intended for that -- I guess just the handling and seaworthiness, though there was a guy hanging around who paddles his Pack 12 on the St. Laurence with ease, apparently. Also, I note the boat's lack of tumblehome suggests it would be easier to load and unload, something one maybe wouldn't think about without standing there looking at the two side by side.

Last point is about the pack seat for portaging. I note again that they offer a higher and lower version of the pack seat, and I'm wondering if the lower version would provide the extra clearance to be able to carry a pack at the same time without having to modify the removable yoke as above.

I know several of you out there are using solo boats of one kind or another. I would love your input on all of the above points. And thank you very much in advance!
 

 

4/09/2017 10:24 am  #2


Re: Solo Canoes/Packboats?

When I solo I prefer the keewaydin 15 pack boat , which I rent from AO in Dwight. I'm an older ( tall) woman, found the low seat and back support fantastic, the double blade easy, and the boat steered straight in a heavy headwind and waves, unloaded as well as loaded. It holds the large blue barrels, a large SEAL pack and my day pack easily. I found it portages like a dream for me, although I added padding to the removable yoke, ( purchased my own yoke to fit me properly). I use a rope between front and back to balance the boat so my arms don't go numb.

In contrast, due to travel distances, I rented a 14 foot solo , but not a pack boat, lightweight canoe in Madawaska and it was a horrible experience. I forgot what brand that was but should be easy to check on the outfitters website. It would not track, was a bear to move with a regular paddle. I'm a long time, strong canoeist, prefer the wooden paddle and  swift canoe when traveling in a team, but when solo nothing beats the pack boat for me.

 

4/09/2017 10:45 am  #3


Re: Solo Canoes/Packboats?

So Trillium I just went though the same research and debate myself. I wanted both a standard solo set up and Pack Boat set up. 

I ended up selling my Pack 13.6 this winter and buying a Keewaydin 14 with a combi seat set -up that you mentioned. You will not find it on their website. I pick it up this weekend coming up :-) .

I don't know of anyone else with a boat like this as they have recently redesigned the combi seat that  they used to offer on Ospreys. Plus combi setups were never super popular. I think I have the first removable solo seat in carbon they ever made. The new combi seat I ordered is all carbon and the pack seat sits in its normal position. (With the older combi version it sat much higher.)

Anyway 2 boats for the price of one.( well slightly more than the price of one) I will use both set ups for different purposes.

If you want pics or pricing details just PM me. And if you are anywhere near Barrie you are more than welcome to come by and see mine after i pick it up, heck you could even paddle it. I'm a couple of blocks away from access to Kempenfelt Bay....maybe not the first paddle though  

Edit: sorry you said you are in Ottawa. At any rate offer stands if you are in the area or if we are in AP at the same time this year.

Also the Pack 13.6 is without a doubt great for backcountry canoeing. No issues there for sure. Of course depends on how much you weigh and how heavy you pack. I'm 175 which is pushing it for a Kee 14 but I pack very light. The 13.6 actually has a higher optimal weight capacity than the K14. By 20lbs I think.

Peek on here used to have a 13.6 too and he is heavier than me I would think.

And a few pics of the new combi seat. (This isnt my boat. It's a protoype of the combi seat.)




removable solo web seat attaches to side pods.


pack seat slides in and out on a rail. so it is fully removable and you can trim the boat better with it.


 

In terms of paddles the Keewaydin 14 has 2 1/2 inches of tumblehome and I have read about people who succesfully paddle the Pack version with a single blade (in tight spots on rivers etc.) They use 46-48 inch paddles for this. I will give this a try when I use mine in the Pack set up. I would not have tried that in my Pack 13.6, just too far to reach over.

Last edited by ShawnD (4/09/2017 8:49 pm)


We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it.
 - George Washington Sears
 

4/10/2017 6:01 am  #4


Re: Solo Canoes/Packboats?

tentsterforever - Thanks for the great comments. Interesting on the sizing. They definitely took one look at me and sized me for a 14', though I'm currently several pounds heavier than ShawnD (male), I guess it must be about height as I'm only around 5' 8". Very smart decision to purchase your own removable yoke. You mention that this allowed you to have one that fits you properly -- were there choices re. the yoke style (i.e. the type of sculpting around the shoulders)? For me the only style that ever worked is the so-called "teal yoke", yet I think there may be multiple versions of this style out there so who knows?

ShawnD - Once again you come through with exactly the input I'm looking for! Many thanks for taking the time for such a detailed answer, especially the pics. I had no idea what the combi seat actually looked like. Extremely helpful!! For one thing I can see clearly that although it will get you essentially two different boats, it would not be practical to take along both pieces to allow either option on a trip deep into the interior--or at least, it would mean more carry items and greater weight to do so -- definitely not my choice. Hell yes I want to see and try your boat! Again, many thanks for the offer. Although in Ottawa, I have no problem taking off for a weekend to check out boats, believe me . And of course if it works out we're in the same area of the Park at the same time, even better! Will PM you shortly.

     Thread Starter
 

4/10/2017 8:52 am  #5


Re: Solo Canoes/Packboats?

NP Trillium.

Ya I toyed with the idea of how to have both options on a given trip too. You could set it up as a Pack and bring the  other contour seat. Wouldn't be too bad. Doubt I would ever do that now though. Will just pick  one set up for the trip I'm taking. 

Long days with lots of kms to cover. Pack canoe -- Seat is more comfortable. Can sit comfortably in it for a very long time. Plus the Pack is faster. No denying that. If really bad weather is anticipated I would likely use the Pack as well. Not getting much more stable than a pack canoe IMO.

If I'm fishing or just want to paddle a single blade ( which will be a lot of the time). Standard set up for sure.

Re your Yoke/Portaging issues. Do you use a canoe pack or a backpacking pack? I used a backpacking pack a few times and had issues. Just sits too high up and rubs against the canoe. Throws everything off. Never had a problem with a canoe pack..

If you need to get the canoe higher you may want to try something like these. They just clamp on to the yoke. Will raise it up a bit for sure.


We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it.
 - George Washington Sears
 

4/11/2017 8:24 pm  #6


Re: Solo Canoes/Packboats?

Hey Trillium,

I bought a pack 13.6 towards the end of the summer last year.  I only did one 'real' trip with it, from Cedar to Radiant Lake.  Plenty of room for one person + gear.  I'm planning to bring my puppy along this summer on solo trips, but we'll have to see because she keeps getting bigger, not sure she's going to fit comfortably!

While I generally get out a fair bit, I wouldn't consider myself a strong paddler, and certainly not a purist.  From my perspective, the pack 13.6 is a great solo tripping boat, primarily because it's so easy to paddle with a kayak blade, it tracks straight, and I feel secure and safe in it.  As an added bonus, my kids - including my 8 year old - can easily paddle it on their own, which makes it a fun watercraft to take along on family trips.  

It's pretty straightforward to paddle with a short canoe paddle (I use my daughter's 48-inch paddle), but clearly it's meant to be paddled with a kayak blade.

It's a tiny little thing and weighs next to nothing, so I wonder how durable it will be.  Time will tell.

Hope that's helpful.

Fred

 

4/17/2017 10:18 am  #7


Re: Solo Canoes/Packboats?

ShawnD wrote:

Ya I toyed with the idea of how to have both options on a given trip too. You could set it up as a Pack and bring the  other contour seat. Wouldn't be too bad. Doubt I would ever do that now though. Will just pick  one set up for the trip I'm taking. 

So now that I have the boat, have played around with it a bit and weighed everything. I'm rethinking my own statement above.

The carbon canoe seat is so light i might just bring it sometimes when I'm traveling in the pack set up. The higher seat is better for fishing or just a leisurely paddle once at camp or on rest days.

 The seat easily fits in my canoe pack and actually gives the frameless bag more support.


  
 


We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it.
 - George Washington Sears
 

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